deck-saloon or center-cockpit sailing liveaboard

[Georgio]

Looking at various Liveaboard options I really like the idea of a deck-saloon but can't find anything in the size range (35-39') that has layout that is anything like as usable as a more traditional center-cockpit layout.

It's only when you get 42'+ that deck-saloons seem to work well but maybe I have been looking at the wrong boats.

I want a comfortable and decent master cabin (either forward or aft) along with a usable second cabin (that can have 2 singles or a double). As always, lots of storage/locker space. GRP preferred.

Any thoughts on this?

Budget is up to 50-60K

 

[Tranona]

You have hit the nail on the head. Deck saloon only really works once you get above 40', although some smaller boats such as Southerleys and and scandinavians such as Regina work quite well.

You have described Moodys and Westerlys from 80's and 90's perfectly. Plenty of choice in that price range. Moody 376 is a good starting point as more on the market than others. However be aware (as I am sure you are) that these are old boats, many of which have had a hard life because they are ideal for what you want. So, actually getting a ready to go boat within that budget is a challenge. Almost certainly you are looking at refit bills of £15k+, so looking at boats under£40k as is.

BTW centre cockpit is really not "traditional" - only really being in favour for those 2 decades, although one or two designs still in production.

Suggest you also look at late 1990's Bavaria Ocean 38. similar to Moody of the same size (and very different from the popular aft cockpit Bavarias) but more modern in style and equipment. Usually priced a bit higher, but being newer might need less work.

 

[Georgio]

Yes, traditional was the wrong word but you knew exactly what I meant and you have understood what I am looking for well.

Shame there isn't a DS style boat that "works" under 40'.

Bav ocean 38 and 40 do look good.

 

[LadyInBed]

Amel comes to mind. You might get one near the top end of your buget.

 

[wazza]

Najad 343 and 360 as well as HR 352 are boats that would be in that price bracket...
They both have ranges that go to larger sizes..

 

[Tony Cross]

I think it depends on where you want to liveaboard. In the Med where you'll be berthing stern-to a centre cockpit is a pain, not just because it makes mooring short-handed harder, but also because your main cabin is typically in the stern - which is the noisy end. A stern cockpit makes for easier mooring, easier access and, if you sleep forward, a lot quieter.

 

[Tranona]

Shame there isn't a DS style boat that "works" under 40'.

.

Just the law of physics. There is not enough bulk to carry the extra volume (particularly height) to make a deck house work. Does work with the more motor orientated boats like Nauticat 33/331 but you lose sailing ability. Other Nauticats such as 37 and 38 would fulfil your requirements but are way out of budget.

 

[Motor_Sailor]

. . . Shame there isn't a DS style boat that "works" under 40'.

I think the Moody Eclipse 33 works quite well, especially as it's only 33ft.
It might not be classically beautiful but it's certainly no 'shed'.

 

[stephen_h]

Have you thought about a catamaran? Very good view from saloon
and loads of space. A Prout would fit the price range.

 

[Georgio]

Najad 343 and 360 as well as HR 352 are boats that would be in that price bracket...
They both have ranges that go to larger sizes..

hmm, I had not considered a HR or Najad assuming they were out of my price range but for an older one it may be possible but would leave little left over for upgrades.

 

[Georgio]

Have you thought about a catamaran? Very good view from saloon
and loads of space. A Prout would fit the price range.

Lots of living space but limited cabin size from what I can see, also the cost of mooring put me off.

 

[capnsensible]

Moved aboard our boat in 1998. Centre cockpit Moody 33 built in 1977.

Got a bit used to it now.

 

[maby]

My concern about relatively small centre cockpit boats for liveaboard would be headroom - most of the centre cockpit boats under about 45 foot that I've been on have been pretty pokey around the aft accommodation.

 

[<152587>]

After experiencing both layouts on the Med, I would prefer the deck saloon as opposed to surviving in a semi underwater cave. Look at a Westerley Riviera, seems to tick all your boxes and a bit of cash left for refurb and upgrades.

 

[Yngmar]

I've looked for a DS yacht in that size long and hard. Didn't really find any that satisfied me, the options with similar budget constraints were few and some of them are really hard to find. From my personal notes then (your criteria may vary):

Beneteau Evasion 34 (looks a bit stacked *mumbleuglyahem* - sold before I could even look at it)
Westerly Riviera 35 (appears to be mostly made of windows and most are a bit manky by now)
Southerly 105 (too small for me, otherwise nice boat)
Southerly 115 (loved it, but the rudder on the Mk1 I viewed was disconcertingly shallow - later revisions were out of budget)
Moody 36 DS (clever pop-up 2nd helm, too small berth in aft cabin)
Northwind Mistral 36 (not really a DS, and it was in really poor condition)
Oyster 406 DS (fantastic boat - out of budget though, internal layout can be idiotic due to semi-custom fit)
Dehler 41 DS (seemed nice, but has owners cabin forward)

I have since somewhat refined my opinion on DS - the only good ones are the ones that really use the added headspace by raising the seating area so that you can look out the big DS windows while seated. Everyone else is just wasting space. Also adds a vast amount of storage space under the raised seat area - or even an entire cabin (Sirius). This was apparently pioneered by Reinke (a Reinke 13M would be fairly high on my list if I found a valise stuffed with Euro notes) and was further improved by the current Sirius 35/40 DS designs, who used the raised space to fit a walk-in engine room/workshop and on some models a whole additional cabin above the keel (perfect for sleeping at sea). Both of these are well out of budget range unfortunately!

Back in reality land, I can second the recommendation of a CC Bavaria. The 38/40 Ocean or an earlier Lagoon (not all of them are CC) would probably suit you. They're a bit rare as they were a higher spec and never for the charter market, so far fewer of them were made, but can be found now and then. I'm somewhat biased though, having compromised on the DS and bought this 40 Ocean

 

[whiteoaks7]

'Aderyn Glas' is feeling slightly insulted I have just two points: the Moody Eclipse 33 still sells at around £50k and deck saloons in the Med get hot. That said have a look at our website - it might help you choose.

www.seasolutions.co.uk

 

[NOHOH]

Have you thought of a Victory 40? www.victory40.co.uk . Thought of as the ultimate cruising boat when they appeared in the early seventies, they were built like a monument to posterity.... In many respects the design still works very well...though as with any long-keeled boat...getting in and out of marinas can be interesting... You can get an awful lot of boat for a very reasonable price....Number 33 in Yachting Monthly`s best 100 boats of the 20th century.

 

[geem]

After experiencing both layouts on the Med, I would prefer the deck saloon as opposed to surviving in a semi underwater cave. Look at a Westerley Riviera, seems to tick all your boxes and a bit of cash left for refurb and upgrades.

In the Caribbean deck saloons are a joke. Too hot too sit in the greenhouse with all those windows. Most people have covers for the windows to keep the heat out. Most living is outside in the cockpit. Similar temperatures at night to the day. We are centre cockpit and wouldnt go with pilothouse unless you plan to sit in there in the cold European climate where it makes lots of sense. Open cockpits with no shelter are also an issue in the Caribbean. Its windy here and even though it may be 26 degC in the evening in winter you feel chilly in the breeze unless you have shelter. A well designed sprayhood that provides shelter so four people can eat at the cockpit table in the evening makes lots of sense here. Opening windows in the sprayhood that allow you to control thr breeze are also essential. Why would you want to be down below in a greenhouse when the alternative is to be outside in comfort.

 

[saltylegs]

I liked the Bavaria Oceans as well but out of our price range and just too long.
After a lot of looking around we went for a Westerly Corsair mk2 center cockpit lots of space and storage.
As for ventilation, all 4 deck hatch's open facing forward and lots of coachroof ports, all bar one opening.
Really chuffed with her and comes in at just under 36 feet.

 

[geem]

I liked the Bavaria Oceans as well but out of our price range and just too long.
After a lot of looking around we went for a Westerly Corsair mk2 center cockpit lots of space and storage.
As for ventilation, all 4 deck hatch's open facing forward and lots of coachroof ports, all bar one opening.
Really chuffed with her and comes in at just under 36 feet.

Glad you are enjoying your boat. Just some comments on ventilation not necessarily aimed at you. In the Caribbean you get short sharp showers regularly. They occur especially at night. A night time ventilation solution is required. Deck hatches cant be left open and coachroof portlights tend to rain in due to their slop inward. Hull portlights tend to be drier and scoops can be made to fit the portlights that can be inlets or exhausts. A boat that works in UK waters doesnt often work in Caribbean for ventilation. It needs working out