Deck officer

[MrChris]

Hi i'm thinking of a career as a deck officer. I'm currently finishing a BSc Geography degree at Bristol university and dont fancy a desk job as an accountant or banker, well not yet... I've just posted an application to P&O cruises; i'd like to here from people in a similar situation. Also does anyone where P&O cruises send there cadets to do classroom studies?
Cheers
Chris

 

[Equinox]

You will probably find a lot of the answers to your questons here

http://www.oceanopportunities.com/company.asp

All cadets have to attend "classroom studies". The training is divided into sea phases and college phases, each of which will be several months long.

I've heard on the grapevine that P&O/Princess are now starting to employ Croatian officers in place of British officers so make sure you investigate this career path fully before committing yourself.

........oh and don't forget to ask them about their staff turnover rate in the junior ranks and the reasons why they leave.

 

[philip_stevens]

Chris,
NUMAST is the Merchant Navy union in the UK. They have an inhouse magazine - NUMAST Telegraph - and in this months edition, there is an article on the French owned shipping company, CMA CGM, with a pledge to take on more British cadets.

If you write or email NUMAST, they will most probably give you some guidance as to who is taking on cadets and where to write to.

There are two email addresses, one general enquiries and the other for the Telegraph.
enquiries@numast.org
telegraph@numast.org

Their snailmail address is -
NUMAST
Oceanair House
750-760 High Road
Leytonstone
London, E11 3BB.

020 8989 6677

Don't necessarily go for deck officer - it may be glamorous up on the bridge, and yes, you may want to become a captain - but also think of engineering. You won't always want to be at sea, and what can a deck officer really do if he wants to come ashore? Whereas, an engineer can turn his hand to most things mechanical.

I was an Electrical (sometimes refrigeration) Officer on P&O and Maersk containerships for 25 years, mainly on the Aussie and Kiwi run, but also USA and south America.

Most of the P&O cadets went to Warsash (near Southampton) for training.

PM me if you want any more information.


Good luck.

 

[Equinox]

Some companies also run dual cadet schemes so that at the end of your training you are both a qualified deck officer and marine engineer (fancy title for mechanic). /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

The opportunities for deck officers ashore are excellent and include areas such as maritime law, port operations, flag state and port state control, ship management etc. There is a shortage of lawyers with deck officer experience whereas engineers do not really follow the legal route and I don't know of any engineers working ashore in port operations.

Only deck officers can become a ship's master (captain) as the engineering route does not equip marine engineers to hold a command position. A captain's responsibility runs from stem to stern whereas an engineers responsibility is largely restricted to the confines of the engine room. As one chief engineer I sailed with used to say "my responsibility stops at the pumproom bulkhead!". /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

Don't know who you sailed/are sailing with. However I find your reply somewhat blinkered, not to say insulting to Marine Engineers. I think you will find that they are slightly higher qualified than mechanics. I could refer to deck officers as "Engineers Lookouts" However that would also be an insult, so I shall refrain!
Personally I was with the RFA for 38 years as Electrical Officer and ETO. the Chief Engineer was "Ships Maintenance Officer" All Heads of Departments. including the "Mate" were responsible to the "Chief" for maintenance in their part of ship. I was resposible for whole ship electrical and electronic maintenance including communications and weapons systems, aircraft starting and servicing equipment, refuelling at sea equipment, navigational aids and all generating and engine room electrical equipment. The Second Engineer was of course responsible for the mechanical side such equipments.
As you will see from the above engineering responsibillity ranged from keel to masthead and bow to stern.
I guess that in the "Merch" as in all walks of life our experiences differ. Good luck and happy sailing.

 

[tome]

[ QUOTE ]
qualified deck officer and marine engineer (fancy title for mechanic)

[/ QUOTE ]

Like Alex_Blackwood I wasn't happy with this, but no matter. You can't have met my hero-in-law who was chief on the atlantic route and torpedoed 3 times. Went on to greater things and thought I should just mention it.

 

[Equinox]

That particular comment was actually made in jest, hence the silly little face at the end of it! This is a particular joke I have shared with many marine engineers over the years and all have taken it in the light hearted manner in which it was intended.

However, I’m afraid you do not enjoy a monopoly at being unhappy. I have to confess to being rather surprised by the comment

“what can a deck officer really do if he wants to come ashore?”

It is shame that in spite of the gentleman’s years at sea he apparently remains unaware of the role of the deck officer and therefore lacks the vision to see where a deck officer can make the successful transition ashore within the shipping industry and other related industries.

Without wishing to turn this into a deck officer/engineer ding-dong I can only suggest that Alex_Blackwood and tome direct their comments to the young lady mentioned in the article below. She is currently conducting postgraduate research into the status of deck officers and engineers.

http://www.numast.org/docimages/1837.pdf

She mentions “engineers claims of low historical status aboard ship” and that the electrical engineer has “continually endured the lowest levels of remuneration, accommodation, authority and certification within the department and still lacks a sea-going qualification to match that held by the mechanical engineer since 1862”. I’m sure any assistance you can give her will be greatly appreciated.

As a final point I feel it is only fair to mention that in the French Merchant Navy, engineers are actually known as mechanics.

……and yes I do have plenty of engineer friends I’m very pleased to say! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Alex_Blackwood]

Like you, my comments were a bit "tongue in cheek" Similar conversations have, and no doubt will continue to be held in ships and bars all over the world. It never stopped me being part of the TEAM that ran the ship i.e. Officers and crew of all departments.

"The electrical engineer has “continually endured the lowest levels of remuneration, accommodation, authority and certification within the department and still lacks a sea-going qualification to match that held by the mechanical engineer since 1862”.

Regarding the above. I quite agree. However I think that things may well change with the introduction of ETO Catedships in some companies. Also a possibly less Durasic and ostrich like aproach in the future from the MCA.


……and yes I do have plenty of engineer friends I’m very pleased to say!

And I have plenty of Deck Officers friends, some of whom have taken their skills into marine related shore jobs with great success.
Cheers and thanks for the chat!
Alex.

 

[Vascojc]

Having been a Deck officer myself in a past life I was pleased to see British companies recruiting more cadets over the past few years.

Then a couple of weeks ago I met one such person.

Having now passed his 'ticket' he has been made redundant and is looking at going into car sales!

The reason appears to be the companies are getting all types of Government assistance to train people, but once trained very few have jobs to go to.

Anyone else have knowledge of this?

 

[Rowana]

I've also heard this, although no first hand evidence. Seems that people from the "enlarged" EU will do the job for much, much less than it would cost to employ a UK person.

I can't blame the shipping companies. We live in a commercial world after all. Still gets right up my nose, though !


Are these the "benefits" of EU membership ??

Think I better get down off my soapbox before I get completely wound up ! !

 

[Equinox]

Unfortunately it is very true John! See my previous posting

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showflat.php/Cat/0/Number/684254/an/0/page/0#684254

I know of cadets that have had to take jobs as AB's. Some managed to get jobs as officers in the end but on very poor conditions of employment. One cadet I know of was told he would continue to be employed after his training finished but only if he was prepared to accept a Ukranian officer's salary. Others just decided to call it a day altogether!

The sad thing about our tonnage tax system is that just about any other nationality of officer can work onboard a UK flagged ship. Under the tonnage tax systems operated by other countries there is a requirement to employ officers of the same nationality as the flag flown by the ship. The Indian tonnage tax system does not allow foreign nationals to work on ships sailing under the Indian flag yet Indians are allowed to be employed on ships flying the Red Ensign. Other countries have a similar link between officer nationality and flag flown by the ship.

The MCA has also helped to put a nail in the coffin of British seafaring by issuing Certificates of Equivalent Competency to every Tom, Dick and Harry whose country happens to appear on the STCW White List in order to tempt foreign ships on to the UK shipping register.

 

[Cath]

P&o send some cadets to glasgow. It's probably a good idea to research some other companies as well. Good luck