Dead downwind with a cruising chute.

[Norman_E]

When I bought my cruising chute I posted on here asking about how far downwind one was useful for. I bought a nice tri radial one from Kemp.

Yesterday I put it up in light wind and dropped the mainsail. My course on a starboard gybe was about 170 degrees off the wind. It filled well after a bit of juggling with the tack line and sheet the boat was making an average of about 4 knots in wind that varied from 5 to 9 knots. Then came the surprise. The wind went dead astern, then about 10 degrees on the wrong (port) side. No problem, the sail kept full, and after a few minutes I decided to turn a little to keep the wind on the starboard side, but only just. Dead down wind sailing seems perfectly feasible, provided the main is dropped.

 

[jimi]

provided the main is dropped.

Think that bit's key! I like to keep the main up with the chute so I can drop in its shadow.

Also find that running downwind with poled out genoa and main with gybe preventer is a lot more relaxing ;-)

 

[flaming]

Dead down wind sailing seems perfectly feasible, provided the main is dropped.

Yep. But gives you no way of blanketing it if the wind gets up and you need to get rid of it in a hurry.

There is another, better, way if you have a spinnaker pole - just pole the tack out. Then you can go ddw, and still have the ability to blanket it behind the main and drop it in a hurry.

 

[jimi]

There is another, better, way if you have a spinnaker pole - just pole the tack out. Then you can go ddw, and still have the ability to blanket it behind the main and drop it in a hurry.

The triradial should work well, I do that occasionally with mine, its more faff and works well if you want to be active!

 

[Bosun Higgs]

Dead down wind sailing seems perfectly feasible, provided the main is dropped.

Dont even need to do that . Just came up the Bristol channel with the genoa poled out on one side and the main strapped down on the other side, wind anywhere from 160 to 180 off either bow. That was in 24 knots true wind steady and with big rollers under us. So to do the same in 5 to 9 knots with a cruising chute will be fine.

You would go faster with a spinny though since half of it would be to one side of the mast and so it would still fill with the main up.

 

[xyachtdave]

Yep. But gives you no way of blanketing it if the wind gets up and you need to get rid of it in a hurry.

Can you not just trip the tack line and pull it in under the boom and down the hatch?

I know this might be a bit messy (and noisy!) but worth thinking about. Use a spinnaker sheet with trigger latch for the tack and you should have no problem dashing up the front of the boat, spike in hand and letting it fly.

From a distance you might even look a little bit tasty wrestling it down....

 

[Pinnacle]

There is another, better, way if you have a spinnaker pole - just pole the tack out. Then you can go ddw, and still have the ability to blanket it behind the main and drop it in a hurry.

Thats exactly what we did coming back from Cherbourg last Sunday!

 

[Amulet]

Yep. But gives you no way of blanketing it if the wind gets up and you need to get rid of it in a hurry.

There is another, better, way if you have a spinnaker pole - just pole the tack out. Then you can go ddw, and still have the ability to blanket it behind the main and drop it in a hurry.

I agree with flaming, but so much so that I'm beginning to doubt the worth of my cruising chute. Experience on other boats makes me think that a good old-fashioned symmetric spinnaker is more effective and, with a little bit of thought, quite controllable. Tripping the tack and hauling it in under the main and down the hatch (to burn on the stove!) works remarkably reliably once you've got over the fact that it will flap around and sound like a bit of a cock-up.

 

[Pagetslady]

I find that anywhere past 160 deg off the wind and i have trouble keeping it pulling, but as for putting it away I have a furler and have run the continues furling line back to the cockpit, furling it is easy if only I could get it to furl tightly all the way to the top, but when its furled its simple to lower it down the side deck. I also find that jibing down wind is easy, I simply furl the chute jibe the main and unfurl the chute on the other side, quite a quick way down wind. But in anything of a blow I enjoy sailing down wind with Genoa poled out one site and main out the other with a preventer. I have a Spinnaker but its a bit of a handful for me on my own. But wing on wing is great fun especially it there is a following sea surfing along at 7 kts or there about.

 

[bobgarrett]

I sailed on a yacht two years ago with a cruising chute and running dead downwind we actually goose-winged. Don't know whether this is legitamate but it worked extremely well.
To dowse it gybe the main over and then its in the shadow again.

 

[mcframe]

Dead down wind sailing seems perfectly feasible, provided the main is dropped.

FWIW, some of the parasail boys suggest dropping the main to get cleaner airflow DDW - another suggestion is to stick a reef or two in the main, but I guess this might work better with a masthead rig. Obviously, being unable to blanket with the main is less of an issue if you've got a snuffer.

 

[Cantata]

I sailed on a yacht two years ago with a cruising chute and running dead downwind we actually goose-winged. Don't know whether this is legitamate but it worked extremely well.
To dowse it gybe the main over and then its in the shadow again.

Legitimate? Is it against EU regs or something?
We often run dead downwind with the cruising chute and main goosewinged. Works a treat, just needs the helm to pay close attention to the chute and keep tweaking the course to stop it collapsing. We don't pole it out, doesn't seem to be necessary.

 

[jimi]

If you put a gype preventer on the main you can sail a bit by the lee to keep thegenoa/cruishind chute filled

 

[Koeketiene]

I sailed on a yacht two years ago with a cruising chute and running dead downwind we actually goose-winged. Don't know whether this is legitamate but it worked extremely well.
To dowse it gybe the main over and then its in the shadow again.

Done that too.

If it seems stupid but it works, it isn't stupid.

 

[Norman_E]

Thanks for all the replies. I do not have a pole, and one for my boat would be a pretty heavy thing to handle. I do have a snuffer, and have an extra long tack line, brought back to the cockpit, so snuffing it, or lowering it through a hatch without the need to remove the tack line are both possible if the wind gets up.

I do have a Scott Boomlock fitted and can use it as a preventer without rigging anything else. I have tried goosewinging with the genoa, but it is difficult to stop the genoa collapsing in light winds due to its weight. Possibly it would work better with the chute, which is 1.5 ounce ripstop nylon, against the heavy cruising laminate of the genoa.

Photo of the chute taken on wednesday.

 

[pugwash94]

Why do you want to sail dead down wind?
Almost invariably it makes sense not to sail the rumb line. You're VMG will increase, you will spare your self the anxiety of an accidental gybe, or the effort of rigging a preventer and the motion of the boat will be much more comfortable.
Have a look at this article http://www.oceansail.co.uk/Articles/VMGArticle.html

 

[Talbot]

Yep. But gives you no way of blanketing it if the wind gets up and you need to get rid of it in a hurry.

Nonsense. If necessary, just roll out the genoa.

However, you will do a lot better aclose to dead downwind if you are using a pole, and if the sheeting position is as far aft/outboard as possible.

 

[flaming]

The ability to make useful progress DDW can be a handy thing to have in your bag of tricks, but as stated, it's unlikely to be the best solution in open waters.

Apart from anything else - whilst it is possible to goosewing a cruising chute, there are a couple of warnings associated with this.
Firstly, this is hardly a "trim and forget" point of sail for the cruising chute, and great care will be needed to get the sail to set, and good attention to the helm and trim will be needed. And in any sort of chop, this move is out - strictly flat water only.
Secondly - any collapse of the chute when it is in its eased state will, according to the law of sod, have it heading straight for the forestay to give it a hug. And clearing wrapped chutes from the forestay whilst perched on the pulpit is not exactly conducive to persuading one's nearest and dearest to put the thing up ever again!

So to make progress downwind, either gybe a lot or buy a pole and pole the tack (note tack - not clew) out.

 

[Cantata]

The ability to make useful progress DDW can be a handy thing to have in your bag of tricks, but as stated, it's unlikely to be the best solution in open waters.
Apart from anything else - whilst it is possible to goosewing a cruising chute, there are a couple of warnings associated with this.
Firstly, this is hardly a "trim and forget" point of sail for the cruising chute, and great care will be needed to get the sail to set, and good attention to the helm and trim will be needed. And in any sort of chop, this move is out - strictly flat water only.
Secondly - any collapse of the chute when it is in its eased state will, according to the law of sod, have it heading straight for the forestay to give it a hug. And clearing wrapped chutes from the forestay whilst perched on the pulpit is not exactly conducive to persuading one's nearest and dearest to put the thing up ever again!.........

Thanks for the warnings but One was already aware.
As for persuading one's nearest and dearest etc......on our boat One usually does these 'difficult' things while the nearest and dearest does the helming. Peace and tranquillity reigns as a result.

 

[flaming]

Nonsense. If necessary, just roll out the genoa.

If you roll out the genoa to use as a blanketing device without the main, you'll need to drop into the forehatch, as otherwise you'll just pull the chute out from behind the genoa and back into the full force of the wind. Forehatch drops are a great move with a full crew - but with a cruising crew one I would try an avoid. Apart from anything else, completely dry drops into the forehatch are rare enough on fully crewed race boats - on a shorthanded cruising boat that's only doing that manouver because something has gone wrong, or it's needed rid of in a hurry.... The occupant of the forecabin is likely to complain of a wet bunk....

However, you will do a lot better aclose to dead downwind if you are using a pole, and if the sheeting position is as far aft/outboard as possible.

Only if you're polling out the clew. To pole out the clew of a cruising chute will require a massive pole, the size of which I doubt many carry. If however you have sensibly poled out the tack, then paradoxically you actually ideally need to move the sheeting position for the chute forward in order to prevent the top of the chute twisting off. moving it back again as the wind comes forward and you start reaching - with or without using the pole. Doubt many cruising boats will be using tweaker lines though - so that's all a bit accademic.