Daytank system with some electronics.

[Deleted member 36384]

But surely this is the same reasoning for not having a chart plotter......

No it's not. Chart plotters make our life at sea easier and safer as navigation is constant when at sea, hence automation is a reasonable development for reducing risk. The diesel system is small and does not require that degree of control or automation, so in the spirit of keeping it simple at sea, I would advocate a simple, manual pump only.

 

[halcyon]

No, the arduino is just a simple way in to electronics and programming. Once I have it completely designed on the arduino it is probably possible to shrink it to a small chip or two.

A couple of LM324's and by-pass the arduino stage. On the other hand as a means of learning programming great idea.


Brian

 

[GHA]

Is there a reason. other than the challenge, for using a micro ? as the above can be done with 2/3 LM324's and a few transistors.

Brian

In my case as the fuel gauge in the day tank needs something to read it anyway it so might as well be an arduino doing all the work, it's easier than building circuits and can do so much more as well, and cheap. So at the same time why not add a couple of temp sensors to log stuffing box and exhaust temps, alternator voltage and temperature, with a single buzzer for any alarms you want to set up. Then keep an eye on it all via bluetooth. Sounds complex but it's really just a few wires, the fun bit is the programming.

And a hand pump just in case. Though the little fuel pump which films my diesel drip feed heater tank looks more like a lump of rust than a pump but still works.

I think the naysayers are unfamiliar with the technology and see it as being more complex than it is, as long as there's a backup should the worst happen then why not.

 

[GHA]

but please, no complex electrics.

Definitely not. Nice simple electronics. , nothing complex like your gps, mobile phone, vhf radio, chart plotter, tablet etc....

 

[pmagowan]

I think people are overestimating the level of electronics. I am talking about an addition to a manual system and I can't see how that would increase any risks. If you have to manually pump fuel then you are relying on incredibly complex but flawed electronics in your own head which is poorly designed for time sensitive and repetitive tasks. I suspect the likely consequence is forgetting to check and sucking air. The arduino runs a very basic program responding to basic inputs with basic outputs. It seems very robust. I admit the Pi is more complex and less robust but then it is simply there as a nice interface as it supports running a screen and is more of a toy than anything else. I like to have information so something monitoring different vital systems and warning of potential problems seems like a good idea. I can understand KISS in the context of the basic structure because complexity can add risk but not when it is in addition rather than instead of the basic structure.

I am glad those with experience of day tanks think they are the way forward. I think a simple system that monitors and keeps my tank topped up is a good idea. It cuts out the risk of human error while still allowing manual control.

 

[pmagowan]

No it's not. Chart plotters make our life at sea easier and safer as navigation is constant when at sea, hence automation is a reasonable development for reducing risk. The diesel system is small and does not require that degree of control or automation, so in the spirit of keeping it simple at sea, I would advocate a simple, manual pump only.

Sorry, I don't see the difference. Automatic fuel polishing and topping up surely reduces risk and makes life easier.

 

[sailor22]

Saraband and fisherman have put their fingers on it - Your ideas are good but - KISS, KISS and more KISS.

Blue water cruising has enough to keep you busy.

Beth Leonard has a simple rule about complexity and the maintenance demands. Simple = 1 week/month, middling = 2 weeks/month and complex = 3 weeks/month.

Beware of heading for the complex. You will regret it.

That said, be sure to incorporate a polishing capability. You will get bug or dirty fuel.

I have two tanks, main in the keel and reserve under a saloon seat. I can run on either and have no header tank. My polishing system is in line with the feed to the engine filters and its pump will suck from either tank.

 

[GHA]

Beware of heading for the complex. You will regret it..

Many years cruising around the Atlantic the only trouble I had with electronics was if they got wet, computer under a leaking hatch or example. Keep them dry and they keep going, a tiny simple cheap microprocessor in a watertight enclosure normally isn't complex. Water makers are complex, generators, electric autopilot, engines, these are things which break and need the maintenance.
Simple electronics aren't the things which keep you busy at the end of each passage.

 

[GHA]

I am glad those with experience of day tanks think they are the way forward. I think a simple system that monitors and keeps my tank topped up is a good idea. It cuts out the risk of human error while still allowing manual control.

All for it :thumb:

Personally that side of it would be easiest with an arduino down near the action, simple to add temp , these are cheap as chips and each has an address so easy to daisy chain with just 2 wires.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&...vptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=t&ref=pd_sl_49taebcsp6_e
Add an alarm and bluetooth so you can see what's happening via a tablet and off you go.

Much as I love pi's (have 2) I never really got into them, plus for a blue water boat it's just too much power to have running all the time.


though the new arduino yun is looking very interesting, about 200mA @ 5v plus no need for a screen, do it all over again wifi with a tablet. Lots of work you'd need to do with a pi has been done already..

 

[lw395]

.....
I think the naysayers are unfamiliar with the technology and see it as being more complex than it is, as long as there's a backup should the worst happen then why not.

Not in my case.

 

[pmagowan]

All for it :thumb:

Personally that side of it would be easiest with an arduino down near the action, simple to add temp , these are cheap as chips and each has an address so easy to daisy chain with just 2 wires.
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&...vptwo=&hvqmt=e&hvdev=t&ref=pd_sl_49taebcsp6_e
Add an alarm and bluetooth so you can see what's happening via a tablet and off you go.

Much as I love pi's (have 2) I never really got into them, plus for a blue water boat it's just too much power to have running all the time.


though the new arduino yun is looking very interesting, about 200mA @ 5v plus no need for a screen, do it all over again wifi with a tablet. Lots of work you'd need to do with a pi has been done already..

Thanks. I have only got experience of t he arduino uno at the moment as I am in the early days of learning. I have it hooked up to my computer and a breadboard and am writing various programmes to turn off and on LEDs. I am presuming if I can do what I want to an LED I can do it to anything. I think the Pi draws about 0.2A at 12V dropped to 5V but without a monitor. I was thinking more of the Pi at the higher level simply because of it's processing ability for a graphical user interface and potentially to run other non-critical systems such as multimedia, wifi etc. I will have a look at the other arduino boards as there may be one that does everything I need. They do some really small boards which may be what I need for attaching sensors etc.

I think it would be nice to have an integrated system that keeps an eye on everything.

 

[GHA]

I think it would be nice to have an integrated system that keeps an eye on everything.

Agree very much, though I'm tending towards anfew of " outliers " then somehow get the data back to the hub. As for data, what would you like to keep an eye on? (bluewater boat), an easy list to implement..

Stuffing box temp
Exhaust temp
Alternator temp
Battery temp
Battery voltage
Solar/wind amps in
Fridge compressor time on / compressor temp

Enough to be getting on with, logging of battery voltage being a biggie!
But not that complicated.

 

[pmagowan]

Agree very much, though I'm tending towards anfew of " outliers " then somehow get the data back to the hub. As for data, what would you like to keep an eye on? (bluewater boat), an easy list to implement..

Stuffing box temp
Exhaust temp
Alternator temp
Battery temp
Battery voltage
Solar/wind amps in
Fridge compressor time on / compressor temp

Enough to be getting on with, logging of battery voltage being a biggie!
But not that complicated.

I am going to have quite a complex bulkhead arangement so may need to have multiple bilge sensors. I plan to have all the berths and saloon seats as watertight compartments that can be used for storage but also act as buoyancy and a second skin to the hull in the event of a below waterline breach. I will probably put some kind of capacitance type water sensor in each 'tank' to show if there are problems and also how big the problem is. This could be routed to the bilge pump valve to drain the appropriate bulkhead automatically. I am going to have a few bilge pumps but I need a valve system for the main engine driven pump.

An engine monitor would be good with various temperature gauges, engine hours, revs, fuel consumption, filter pressure etc. Gas and Co detectors attached to the gas shutoff valve. Water and waste monitors including tanks and temperatures.

It could actually become quite complex!

 

[fisherman]

Did you never have a train set?

 

[GHA]

Pmg, load of good arduino stuff on here....

http://m.youtube.com/user/julius256

 

[fisherman]

I would say the other thing about multiple sensors and alarms is when you are in the thick of it and you get some beep or other going off you automatically think it's to do with your immediate problem, I had some issues with bilge water, (I was in harbour) the gas alarm got knocked by a swinging L/J buckle and went off in test mode, the radio started beeping because the GPS was off and had no position, and I still had this bl00dy beep...it was a fork lift working on the quay.

 

[GHA]

Seen these yet? Just out, looks very interesting, 200mA at 5v, external wifi antenna so you can mount everything in a waterproof metal die cast case.....
http://www.seeedstudio.com/depot/Yun-Shield-p-1930.html