DANGER ! Lithium ion batteries in hand held radios

[14K478]

I’ll declare an interest - I write for the (free, on line) shipping industry publication quoted here, but I didn’t write this - the Editor did.

How many of us leave our hand held VHF on charge?

The crew of this tanker left a couple of hand-helds (ships carry a couple of dozen of these to co-ordinate berthing) to charge in the wheelhouse whilst they got on with discharging the cargo - its normal practice to leave the wheelhouse unmanned and locked when a ship is alongside in port.

How one handheld radio ripped a ship’s bridge apart
How one handheld radio ripped a ship’s bridge apart - Splash247

 

[oldgit]

Nothing new.
Used to sell portable VHF radios with "old fashioned"Nicad batteries.
Came in on a Monday to find one of the batteries on a Motorola handheld on charge had literally exploded.
Bits of metal buried in nearbye walls and ceilings with a coat of black dust everywhere.
Number of floor tiles damaged beyond repair by hot bits of battery casing.
Fortunately nobody around at the time and nothing inflammable nearbye in the workshop near the charging pack.

 

[Plum]

How many of us leave our hand held VHF on charge?

We have 4 Icom hh vhfs always on charge for emergencies.

 

[Halo]

It’s another inconvenient truth that lithium ion batteries are a hazard. I don’t expect much will be done about them until there is a major disaster or insurance cover becomes expensive.
Personally I don’t leave them on charge when I am away from boat or in bed.

 

[Laysula]

I once had a nicad pack from a radio control car explode when it overcharged.

 

[14K478]

We have 4 Icom hh vhfs always on charge for emergencies.

I had two. I have just “changed my policy” on that!

 

[justanothersailboat]

Hazard for mechanically undamaged lithium batteries must be really low - there are huge numbers in use and not many problems. When they get damaged they're a bad bet.

But... surely half the benefit of li ion in your handheld radio is that it holds its charge well, so you don't have to leave it on charge and you can turn it on after ages in a bag and it still works. Whereas nimh ones have a fairly high self discharge and die even on the shelf.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Hazard for mechanically undamaged lithium batteries must be really low - there are huge numbers in use and not many problems. When they get damaged they're a bad bet.

But... surely half the benefit of li ion in your handheld radio is that it holds its charge well, so you don't have to leave it on charge and you can turn it on after ages in a bag and it still works. Whereas nimh ones have a fairly high self discharge and die even on the shelf.

Li Ion is also way safer than NiMH which preceeded it. I’ve seen those go up many times. Li Ion, I appreciate that it can be an issue, but rarely due to ordinary use and correct recharging. Even with misuse, they are more robust than other rechargeable technologies. I have seen a Samsung phone go up in smoke. Not misuse as such, but it had been streaming a movie, maximum power for about 90 mins when it happened.

 

[Romeo]

Rather embarassingly our local fire station burned down. A radio left on charge was blamed for the issue. (did not help that it was stored on a work bench with inflammable materials)

Report suggests £14 battery, pots of paint and unmonitored alarm caused fire in fire station - Deadline News

 

[Stemar]

Rather embarassingly our local fire station burned down. A radio left on charge was blamed for the issue. (did not help that it was stored on a work bench with inflammable materials)

Report suggests £14 battery, pots of paint and unmonitored alarm caused fire in fire station - Deadline News

Oops

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Rather embarassingly our local fire station burned down. A radio left on charge was blamed for the issue. (did not help that it was stored on a work bench with inflammable materials)

Report suggests £14 battery, pots of paint and unmonitored alarm caused fire in fire station - Deadline News

That rather infers that the battery was a dodgy cheap eBay replacement, from an unknown Chinese factory. That’s the lesson I would take from that. I have heard of this with replacement batteries for Makita power tools. Buy OEM, stay safe.

 

[rgarside]

With the older Nimh batteries in HH VHF's, leaving them on charge longer than to get to fully charged would significantly reduce the battery life - so best not to leave them on charge.

 

[lustyd]

Hazard for mechanically undamaged lithium batteries must be really low

That's the problem, no it's not. It is certainly the case for good batteries with well designed management systems, such as an iPhone that's careful not to overcharge (pretty sure the latest iPhones undercharge on purpose!). VHF manufacturers are unlikely to have made the same investment in charging though so it's down to the human. Unfortunately lower volume items and lower quality items have fewer protections so can be very dangerous even without physical damage.

 

[DownWest]

Saw something that the fires due to electric scooters/bikes were likely due to cheap aftermarket chargers, rather than the OEM kit.
Any comments?

 

[lustyd]

Saw something that the fires due to electric scooters/bikes were likely due to cheap aftermarket chargers, rather than the OEM kit.
Any comments?

A quality device would prevent a bad charger doing damage.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

A quality device would prevent a bad charger doing damage.

To an extent yes. However, you’d still be pushing the envelope. You wouldn’t want to do that on your boat. Is there anything worse than a fire on board?

 

[Kelpie]

That rather infers that the battery was a dodgy cheap eBay replacement, from an unknown Chinese factory. That’s the lesson I would take from that. I have heard of this with replacement batteries for Makita power tools. Buy OEM, stay safe.

I've got a couple of fake power tool batteries.
One is Makita compatible, supposedly 3Ah but weighs about half as much as a genuine one. And interestingly it behaves differently. The genuine battery will shut itself off when it gets too low, with barely any perceptible drop in performance first. But the fake one will just keep going, slower and slower, until you get fed up and put it on charge.
That tells me that the genuine battery has some sort of BMS inside it, and the fake one doesn't- or if it does, the parameters are set very wide. I don't leave it charging unattended, because if it doesn't know when to stop discharging, I don't trust it not to overcharge either.

I've also got a Ryobi pattern battery, which nearly went up in smoke. The clips which hold it in to the tool have steel springs inside them, separated from the cells by a thin layer of foam tape. One day I was wrestling the battery in to the charger (it was never a great fit)and I heard a click, as something in the plastic broke. It started smoking furiously, until the offending piece of metal fell out and the short was stopped. Terrible piece of design, and an accident waiting to happen.

So it's back to genuine batteries for me, even though I'm a notorious skinflint.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

With more than a hint of self righteousness, I can say all my Makita batteries are genuine. Some are over 10 years old, and still eminently usable. Hard to say how much capacity they may have lost.

 

[fredrussell]

With more than a hint of self righteousness, I can say all my Makita batteries are genuine. Some are over 10 years old, and still eminently usable. Hard to say how much capacity they may have lost.

Well, sorry to burst your bubble but my boss’s gear shed was burnt to the ground by a genuine Makita 5a/h battery left overnight in a genuine Makita charger. He lost a huge amount of gear (but was well insured). I’m sure failures are more likely with non-genuine batteries and chargers but it’s not unheard of with the good stuff.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Damaged? Construction can be rough on the gear. PAT needs to be extended to battery inspections. I have heard of building site fires overnight too, caused by tools recharging.