Damp boat

Rhylsailer99

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My boat was water logged all winter its now dry but certain areas I put the pipe connected to a diesel heater and it dries out. But the next day I come back the same area feels damp again. Can it take a long time for the hull and fiberglass to fully dry out.
 
Yes, especially if any of the soft furnishings are still onboard and you have not got all the leaks sealed.
Also when you have heaters on you need ventilation, preferably a fan to push the damp air out.
PS Diesel heaters push out moist air, electric fan heaters are best.
 
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PS Diesel heaters push out moist air, electric fan heaters are best.

That's not correct. Diesel blown air heaters (e.g. Eberspacher) draw air in either from outside (usually the cockpit), and that is the most common set up, or, less popular, from within the boat.

The former (drawing air from outside) is better because the air outside will usually be colder and contain less moisture than that inside, but once heated will hold a lot more. This will absorb significant moisture in the boat which will then be expelled via vents and gaps. Hence a drier boat.

Both a diesel blown air heater drawing air from inside and an electric fan heater will simply circulate the air inside the boat. While it is warm it will absorb and hold moisture, but this is not being removed from the boat in substantial amounts, so will simply condense again on cold surfaces, or from the air itself once the temperature drops again. Not much use for drying a boat out, but it will heat up quicker and use less fuel as little of the warm air is being lost the atmosphere.

The exhaust of a blown air heater diesel burner will contain moisture (together with poisonous gases and particles), but that is entirely separate from the heating air (which the burner heats via a heat exchanger), and is expelled directly outside the hull (usually the transom).
 
A mains ‘dessicant’ style dehumidifier will help and it’s generally a nice thing to have aboard anyway...

Bear in mind that in a waterlogged boat - and, sadly, ours was too - some things may never dry out. Namely plywood. You’ll find, eventually, that ply which has gotten wet will need to be cut out and replaced. If it’s structurally intact you might just get away with encapsulating it in GRP - but thats probably saving up trouble for later.

GRP itself will dry out, but very very slowly (without the aid of dehumidifiers, heaters and even vacuum, in the worst cases). But of course GRP can be wet with no ill effects, osmosis concerns aside.

I do the same every time I’m working aboard this time of year - fan heaters on (2000w ceramic types from screwfix etc are good), hatches open, gets a little bit better every time, etc.!
 
That's not correct. Diesel blown air heaters (e.g. Eberspacher) draw air in either from outside (usually the cockpit), and that is the most common set up, or, less popular, from within the boat.

The former (drawing air from outside) is better because the air outside will usually be colder and contain less moisture than that inside, but once heated will hold a lot more. This will absorb significant moisture in the boat which will then be expelled via vents and gaps. Hence a drier boat.

Both a diesel blown air heater drawing air from inside and an electric fan heater will simply circulate the air inside the boat. While it is warm it will absorb and hold moisture, but this is not being removed from the boat in substantial amounts, so will simply condense again on cold surfaces, or from the air itself once the temperature drops again. Not much use for drying a boat out, but it will heat up quicker and use less fuel as little of the warm air is being lost the atmosphere.

The exhaust of a blown air heater diesel burner will contain moisture (together with poisonous gases and particles), but that is entirely separate from the heating air (which the burner heats via a heat exchanger), and is expelled directly outside the hull (usually the transom).
I may be wrong here & I will stand corrected if I am, then you are not entirely correct. Although i cannot find anything on google to support what I am going to say which makes me more uncertain.
However, I seem to recall that the first part of your comment is correct to a point. ie cold air holds less moisture. But only so far. At temperatures falling below 4+ C the air once again starts to hold moisture.
That means that if the temperature outside the boat is, say 1deg C one will actually be pumping moisture laden air into the boat. This is precisely the sort of condition that the Op might meet when he wants to dry his boat . Obviously he would expect the temperature to rise at some point but depending on where his boat is & when the heater runs, will have an effect on his efforts
That being said I would still go for the diesel heater & ventilation if an A/C unit is not available-- with the proviso that the OP is aware that there have been stories of some catching fire when left unattended . Discharge the water into the sink & out via the drain otherwise the water will fill the tank & the operation will become pointless.
I am sure others will comment on my memory about the absorption of moisture in cold air. As I said, It is a very long time since I went to school but I did get an "O" level in chemistry-- for what good that did:confused:
 
I may be wrong here & I will stand corrected if I am, then you are not entirely correct. Although i cannot find anything on google to support what I am going to say which makes me more uncertain.
However, I seem to recall that the first part of your comment is correct to a point. ie cold air holds less moisture. But only so far. At temperatures falling below 4+ C the air once again starts to hold moisture.
That means that if the temperature outside the boat is, say 1deg C one will actually be pumping moisture laden air into the boat. This is precisely the sort of condition that the Op might meet when he wants to dry his boat . Obviously he would expect the temperature to rise at some point but depending on where his boat is & when the heater runs, will have an effect on his efforts
That being said I would still go for the diesel heater & ventilation if an A/C unit is not available-- with the proviso that the OP is aware that there have been stories of some catching fire when left unattended . Discharge the water into the sink & out via the drain otherwise the water will fill the tank & the operation will become pointless.
I am sure others will comment on my memory about the absorption of moisture in cold air. As I said, It is a very long time since I went to school but I did get an "O" level in chemistry-- for what good that did:confused:

I think you are confused.

Air at 1 deg C can hold water, and anywhere a boat is will (almost certainly) do so. However, at low temperatures it can't hold much water (hence fog and rain!). So, draw in that 1deg air with a small amount of water vapour in it, via the cockpit into the intake of the heater side of the diesel blown air heater. It will be forced by the fan through the heat exchanger, and the air will become very warm.

As it is blown along the ducting it will now have exactly the same amount of moisture in it as the air outside, but now the air is much warmer it is capable of holding much more water vapour than when cold (our more learned friends could tell us exactly how much at different temperatures).

As the warm, and now relatively (to its temperature) dry air circulates around it will absorb moisture from walls, windows fabric, steam from cooking, etc. It will happily contain much more water than when it was cold.

Because you are pumping warm air into the boat from outside, it has to escape somewhere. In practice the same amount of air you are pumping in will escape via vents, and gaps above the washboards and elsewhere. But on leaving the enclosed boat it will be taking with it that extra load of water it absorbed inside.

Outside it will rapidly cool back to the ambient 1degC. At that temperature it will not be able to hold the amount of moisture it had when it was warm, so the 'excess' moisture it has gained on its passage through the boat will condense out into the atmosphere. You may even see your own small cloud of mist forming as it comes out of vents etc. (exactly the way it does when you breathe out warm, moist air from your lungs on a cold day).

Diesel blown air heaters are normally very safe. There are millions of them in use every day, and have been for many decades in lorries, vans, RVs, caravans, boats etc. I am aware of only one report of a fire, and that report was second or third hand (and disputed or questioned by some). It said that one of the very cheap Chinese heaters failed to shut down and caught fire when it was deliberately blocked to test the safety features - i.e. the overheat safety shut-down had failed to operate as it should, it was said.

I am unclear why you are talking about discharging the water into a sink and drain. Perhaps you are confusing heaters with dehumidifiers? With a blown air heater set up as I described there is no drain: the surplus water is discharged in to the atmosphere outside the boat.
 
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However, I seem to recall that the first part of your comment is correct to a point. ie cold air holds less moisture. But only so far. At temperatures falling below 4+ C the air once again starts to hold moisture.
I'm afraid you are misremembering. Here's a table from Engineering Toolbox:

Z3jQJY5.png


It's a bit misleading to think of air "holding" moisture. It's not like dissolving something in water, when there is a temperature-dependent maximum solute density. Water in air is just another gaseous component and the maximum possible amount depends on the physical properties of water, not air. So, for example, at 10C the saturation pressure of water is 0.01227 bar, which means that water can contribute at most 1.227% of atmospheric pressure. At saturation the water has a density of 9.39 g per cubic metre, which you'll see is the value in the table above.

That's completely independent of the other constituents; as long as the temperature is 10C the maximum water density will be 9.39 g per cubic metre whether in a boat, at the top of Everest, surrounded by helium or in the "vacuum" space at the top of a water column barometer.

Of course it can help to think of the atmosphere carrying air, but only in the sense of "what does the current temperature permit"? Cumulus clouds don't form because rising air can't hold water - they form because the temperature drops below the saturation temperature for the local pressure.
 
I am unclear why you are talking about discharging the water into a sink and drain. Perhaps you are confusing heaters with dehumidifiers? With a blown air heater set up as I described there is no drain: the surplus water is discharged in to the atmosphere outside the boat.
That part of my post did relate to A/C units. NOT diesel heaters. (Although I failed to make that clear- apologies)They extract water & some collect the water to a tray which needs emptying & some have a discharge hose. I did read a PBO magazine test of them some years ago ( That is where I got this info) & they suggested the "discharge to a sink" idea. Not my idea. They also cited some cases of fires on board caused by electric heaters & A/C units left un supervised for long periods. Acompanied by a picture of a burning motor cruiser!!!
 
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I'm afraid you are misremembering. Here's a table from Engineering Toolbox:

Z3jQJY5.png


It's a bit misleading to think of air "holding" moisture. It's not like dissolving something in water, when there is a temperature-dependent maximum solute density. Water in air is just another gaseous component and the maximum possible amount depends on the physical properties of water, not air. So, for example, at 10C the saturation pressure of water is 0.01227 bar, which means that water can contribute at most 1.227% of atmospheric pressure. At saturation the water has a density of 9.39 g per cubic metre, which you'll see is the value in the table above.

That's completely independent of the other constituents; as long as the temperature is 10C the maximum water density will be 9.39 g per cubic metre whether in a boat, at the top of Everest, surrounded by helium or in the "vacuum" space at the top of a water column barometer.

Of course it can help to think of the atmosphere carrying air, but only in the sense of "what does the current temperature permit"? Cumulus clouds don't form because rising air can't hold water - they form because the temperature drops below the saturation temperature for the local pressure.
And to back all that up, Antarctica is extremely dry, because the air simply can't hold much moisture at temperatures that average below that of the lowest in JD's table. . The annual precipitation in the interior of Antarctica is less than 2mm per year in many places - Antarctica is by far the driest place on Earth; the Sahara is positively damp by comparison!
 
And to back all that up, Antarctica is extremely dry, because the air simply can't hold much moisture at temperatures that average below that of the lowest in JD's table. . The annual precipitation in the interior of Antarctica is less than 2mm per year in many places - Antarctica is by far the driest place on Earth; the Sahara is positively damp by comparison!
Indeed. Below 0C at 1 bar the game changes a bit because it's now solid and gas in equilibrium, not liquid and gas. Water sublimes quite nicely - it's how hailstones disappear on dry days.

Which leads me to a question ... how did all the ice in Antarctica get there in the first place? Was it a very slow build up over millions of years, perhaps by desublimation of what little water vapour is around or is/was there a faster process?
 
So far I am finding the dehumidifier on once or twice a week for 8 hrs is doing a good job in keeping the boat interior free of any damp issues.
My neighbours with a similar boat have had condensation issues but were too tight to have the dehumidifier on. They have realised the cost for the electricity for the dehumidifier is worth it.

However it sounds like the OP has some other underlying water ingress issue ?
 
Indeed. Below 0C at 1 bar the game changes a bit because it's now solid and gas in equilibrium, not liquid and gas. Water sublimes quite nicely - it's how hailstones disappear on dry days.

Which leads me to a question ... how did all the ice in Antarctica get there in the first place? Was it a very slow build up over millions of years, perhaps by desublimation of what little water vapour is around or is/was there a faster process?
It would have built up faster initially; much of the present low temperature is caused by the ice cap itself - it reaches over 4000m high, and is part of the mechanism that causes the polar vortex, which keeps the air dry and the temperatures low. There is a mountain range beneath the ice - the Gamburtsev Mountains - that are though to have formed the nucleus for the initial formation of the ice cap, But basically, it's all about time - the ice cap has been there for a long time; Antarctica has been centred over the pole since the Cretaceous, or even earlier (I forget the exact period) and the ice cap has been in existence since the Eocene, 45 million years ago. Even 2mm a year accumulates a vast thickness over that kind of period - I make it 90km, and the ice only averages 2 km thick! Of course, the discrepancy is because ice is plastic and flows; I think the oldest ice at the bottom of cores like that at Dome C is dated less than a million years ago, but it gets a bit messy at the bottom of the core because the flow regime of the ice is no longer simple.
Sublimation isn't a big deal, as I understand it.
I've never had a straight answer from atmospheric scientists as to whether the snow at Vostok, where the lowest earthly temperature was recorded, could include a proportion of CO2 in winter; the temperatures around there reach -90C in winter, and I think that's below the sublimation point of CO2. But the air pressure may be too low.

Can I recommend an excellent recent publication by a former colleague, Antarctic Atlas by Peter Fretwell? I got it as a Christmas present, and it's an excellent popular account of many aspects of Antarctic Science. Peter is well qualified to write on it - he worked for me! Unfortunately, my major contribution to the book is an anonymous publication - a database I manages for over 20 years, the Antarctic Digital Database, alongside the South Georgia GIS!
 
Is boat afloat or ashore with access to shore power [use a desiccant dehumidifier alone with blown air]. Is it salt water or rain ingress?
Does 'Bonda' make rotten wood solid again?
Bonda Wood Hardener | Rustins
Don't know what to do about salt crystals though.
 
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