Dacron Vs Laminate

[alexg]

I'm sat on quotes from Peter Sanders for both his cross-cut Vectron (how it is labelled by Sanders) and radial-cut Polyester Cruiselam (DP DCX-M) in grey.

Still not sure which way I'm going to go with it (the boat is a Beneteau First 38s5 so does lend itself to a sporty set of sails), but the order will definitely go in with Sanders.

 

[Birdseye]

Now this might seem like a really stupid point, and kind of expect to be told so.....but, for cruising, I think I would rather rather go for the thickest Dacron the sailmaker could get his needle through and would still roll up round the foil.
After all, laminate is just a thick, stiff sheet (albeit with virtually no bias?) But Dacron lasts longer, doesn't it?
My original sails which came with the boat from new were a really thick/heavy Dacron and gave a superb shape and performance especially in f5-7for 10 years. The main is still very useable, and the Genoa just scruffy. My current sails from the the same loft are nowhere near as stiff/heavy and will probably go west a lot sooner than the old ones.
I appreciate that heavy sails will not perform so well in light airs so I have a cruising chute and will roll up the heavy Genoa.
Is there anything wrong with asking for the heaviest material available?

According to PBO, your original sails were stiff / heavy because the contained a lot of resin - in other words they werent a close weave but a looser one stiffened by addition of resin. And there is no way that they will have a good shape after 10 years of f5-7. They might look as if they do but they will have stretched.

My current boat came with a laminate genoa, the first laminate sail I have ever had. It lasted 9 years until it started de-laminating and in that time it withstood winter racing with soime reasonable results in any weather. One memorable sail ( OK it was a cock up and we shouldnt have gone ) in 40kn. Its shape retention has been really impressive to the point where I , a Yorkshireman, have just coughed up for a replace triradial laminate. Unlikely I will be sailing this boat in 9 years time.

You can make a decent Terylene sail ( Dacron is the US name for Terylene invented in the UK by ICI) last a very long time and if you arent that bothered about the last bit of speed / pointing ability, its probably the way to go. But if you want the best out of your boat, go laminate and put up with the extra cost and shorter life.

 

[rudolph_hart]

I replaced a 3 year old Elvstrom cruising laminate jib which had developed 'hernias' (splits in the laminate so that the sail was held together with the outer, low tech, skrim) with a Crusader Hydranet one (now 2 years old). The Hydranet jib is looking good as new and has held its shape perfectly. To me that's all the more remarkable because its a high aspect 115% sail, a shape prone to venting out of the top of the leach. Its still setting perfectly in 25 knots of breeze! Same couldn't be said for the laminate sail at a similar point in its life. Both sails have done some miles (South Brittany and SW Ireland plus south coast pottering) so far Hydranet looks to combine Dacron longevity with Laminate stability. Long may it last!

+1 for my Dehler 35. Replaced old Elvestrom with Crusader Hydranet, both mainsail & 105% high aspect jib. Now 4th season - excellent!

 

[Javelin]

I did a lot of testing when I was a sponsored racing helm with firstly Hyde, then North and finally P&B.
The general conclusion was out of the bag laminate is faster by up to 5%.
But after a high wind championship of around 8 or 10 races this advantage dropped to 2 or 3%
By the end of the season 1 the difference was marginal.
Reports subsequently said that after season 2 the dacron sails were possibly faster.

However there's a ton of caveats to the above.
Firstly it was a few years back and things have possibly moved on in the last four or five years.
Our sails were built as light as possible with the laminates being essentially stuck together with hardly a stitch.
We had differing cuts and cloth weight based more around expected sea state rather than wind speed etc.
We pushed the sails hard, tweaking them almost constantly.

My conclusion though now I'm a cruising man is dacron all the way.
I've had four mains blow out on me, all were laminate and one was kevlar that when it blew up sounded like a gunshot and there was nothing left other than the leech line.
I've had two laminate jibs blow out and both times it was down to insufficient clew patching and the fact that the baby stay would knock hell out of it on every tack.
I've never had a catastrophic failure from a dacron sail mainly because you normally get a fair amount of warning before it goes bang.

That said my current rather old main is a Mylar Hyde and a Dacron Genoa with a bunch of smaller laminate jibs that hardly ever get used these days.

 

[Hayling]

I bought a Beneteau First 31.7 from Ireland a few of years ago
and it came with a dozen assorted race sails, mostly tape drive
and in poor shape except the newest main and Genoa.
The Genoa's were of the put up and take down variety,
whereas my sailing is mostly of the don't spill your drink type
so I fitted a furler and discussed with my mate Alan Bax of P&B,
a formidable dinghy sailor and sailmaker.
I settled on Hydranet for a 135% Genoa and two years later it is in
excellent shape, no damage and draws well.
I look after it, have rail rollers and shroud patches and a foam
luff and UV strip but is a good compromise for club racing
and family cruising, when my main gives up or if I succumb to
the sirens calling that a new main is to blame for my abysmal skills,
I will have hydranet again, but with two reefs
and not a bolt rope but cars for an easy drop
as a bugger in a blow!

 

[Chanquete]

Elvstrom-Sobstad do laminate sails covered in Dacron Taffeta for UV protection. Best of both worlds.

I owned a Sobstad Genoa with a laminate protected by external dacron tafeta.
Muld gets in between the tafeta and the laminate. Impossible to clean. Finally the sail delaminated in large areas,

Recently I bought a triradial North Genoa of radian warp oriented polyester.
I am delighted with its performance

Regards
Chanquete

 

[RAI]

I owned a Sobstad Genoa with a laminate protected by external dacron tafeta.
Muld gets in between the tafeta and the laminate. Impossible to clean. Finally the sail delaminated in large areas,

Thanks for the warning. My sails are now 12 years old so I guess I should watch out for de-lamination sometime soon.