cyl.hd.gasket material

[DaveA]

After seeing the price of 3 new head gaskets for my volvo MD17c I am considering making my own from copper sheet (annealed).
being a raw water cooled engine anyone know if this could be a problem?

 

[Col]

Potential minefield,
Have you tried an alternative supplier such as Keyparts?

 

[[448]]

Col,
Why is this a potential mine field? I was thinking about solid copper head gaskets for my ancient Volvo 165's to lower the comp. ratio for PARAFIN conversion.
Cheers D.

 

[Col]

Compression ignition engines run a very close piston/cyl head clearance, too little and piston will hit head, too much, and it will be hard/impossible to start.
Cyl head gskts usually available in several thicknesses to maintain this critical clearance, normally identified by different numbers of notches on edge. Add to this most diesel gaskets are generally made of a sandwich of different materials and reinforcements.
As I said, I would favour finding an alternative supplier.
Islecastle, If you want a lower c/r go for a thicker gasket, by identifying yours, and go up a thickness or 2 ( If available)
Islecastle, Just re read your post, Obviously not applicable to your engine.



<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Col on Sat Jan 26 22:38:28 2002 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[[448]]

Sorry Col, I now realise that the original post referred to DIESEL engines, mine being ancient petrols(1 mpg) hence serious thoughts about parafin conversions. Still, any thoughts about this? I hesitate to refer this to the stinkpots forum for fear of coarse replies.
Cheers D.

 

[oldharry]

Cols quite right, head gaskets are manufactured to very precise tolerances, and of carefully specified materials. Aletring either specification will almost certainly cause major problems, and can rather easily damage the engine or even write it off. Even if the engine runs, use of incorrect materials may result in early failure of the gasket either by blowing or burning through.

Even so, diesel engine gaskets do seem to be grossly overpriced. Solid copper head gaskets are usually only found on small capacity low compression low revving petrol engines, like the old Seagull outboard, and your motor mower. It is unlikely to be hard enough to stand up to the stresses of larger more powerful units.

 

[Strathglass]

Wm Johnston & Co Ltd, 44b Seafield Industrial Estate, Inverness, manufacture gaskets for various tasks. I have purchased gasket material from them and sucessfully made exhaust gaskets for a XLD engine without problems.

Their phone no is 01463 238673

Probably worth a phone call.
Iain

 

[Guest]

I have made gaskets in the past but only on very old single cylinders , a very time consuming process and if you make an error , start again.
It's right to say you could risk problems but on the other hand if you want to try why not it's your engine . Why not try the engine site some one there should point you in the right direction it's at http://boatdiesel.com/index.cfm
Mick

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boats
looking for an ex trawler if you see one !!

 

[ArthurWood]

Re: Coarse replies

We're quite nice chaps, really. Col talks to me, too! You wouldn't be one of those people who complains to Kim H would you?

 

[longjohnsilver]

Hesitation

Your hesitation well founded, not only coarse replies but also much fred drifting and lots of meaningless banter. Still it's fun and we enjoy it.

Head gaskets, ah well having changed mine on a 6 cylinder diesel about 5 times witin a year I do feel a little qualified to comment. IMHO opinion th correct material is ESSENTIAL unless you want to play silly buggers and end up constantly changing it. My problem was a duff supply from engine manufacturers which constantly leaked oil and a little water at high revs, not a huge problem but more than a little disconcerting. Eventually they changed the gasket supplier and problem solved. Again IMHO not worth messing around to save a few quid.

Just out of interest how much is a gasket for your Volvo? For my 6 cylinder Ford based engine the whole gasket set is about £90, that includes head, rocker cover and exhaust gaskets, injection seals etc.

 

[Trevor_swfyc]

Re: Cylinder head gasket

Dave,

You are either a highly skilled engineer or.....

I made a gasket for my volvo 2002 water pump didn't leak but didn't pump either. It took me several goes to get the thickness right it has to be paper thin to work but no harm done.

If you get water in the bores you may have a bill far exceeding the cost of any gasket.

Having you thought of posting for anybody who might have an unused and unwanted gasket this must happen when boats are sold and items get left in the loft and garage.

As for making your own head gasket I wouldn't even dream about it unless it was a nightmare!

Good Luck
Trevor



<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Trevor_swfyc on Sun Jan 27 10:37:54 2002 (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[Col]

Have you thought about a diesel engine conversion from someone like Lancing marine?
If you did run your 165's on paraffin ( have you tried getting this lately?) you would find fuel consumption would rocket, power would be down, due to lower c/r and bigger carb jet sizes required. Mick of MTB carbs might have an idea of sizing. I know that when running a petrol engine on methanol, approx 100% jet size increase is required.

 

[DaveA]

Re: Cylinder head gasket

thanks for all the comments , I have the means to easily make solid copper gaskets,and have made them before for vintage petrol engines,
my main concern was the effect on the copper being in contact with salt water
(dissimalar metals and all that 'tecnical stuff')
I did feel looking at the head design a solid gasket could be reliable and cope with the higher pressures of the diesel, but wondered if anyone had experience of this.

the cost of the vovo md17c head gasket only,per cylinder is around £38 its a 3 cylinder engine - £114 I felt was a bit of a rip off

 

[oldharry]

Re: Volvo Cylinder head gaskets - and other bits.

Ah, well, if you will run Volvos, you have to expect to pay Volvo prices......

A tip (from an ex Volvo agent) : get the part number and go to the local Volvo car agent - many car parts (in my particular case, rubber engine mounts) are fitted to marinised engines and are sold without the 'marine' loading on the price. Engine mounts quoted at £44 were only £27 from the car agent. Same part number and same specification.....

 

[Guest]

He would have to have an adjustable main jet also a shut off valve so that when starting on petrol he could switch over to paraffin ,just the same as petrol tvo on early engines.
Power would indeed go down ,as you say change to diesel .Some one had a pair of BMC's quite cheap with gearboxes on the for sale section had I not been working on the tug I would have got them ,who knows they may still be up for grabs !!
Mick

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boats
looking for an ex trawler if you see one !!

 

[brianrunyard]

Have a go. I made 3 for an Albin 4 cylinder side valve engine abour 12 years ago. I sandwitched 3 sheets of copper between 2 sheets of "Tufnol" clamped them up with the old gasket on top and then drilled some of the holes so I could bolt the whole lot together. I then used a trepanning tool and jigsaw for the larger holes and irregular shapes. Took a lot of time but I ended up with a new gasket and 2 spares, which I never needed as one worked fine for several years.

 

[[448]]

Re: Coarse replies

Not guilty, Arthur.
Cheers D.

 

[[448]]

165'S in and running with 3 Strombergs each (i.e. adjustable main jets). Problem with diesels is physically changing them, mating up to 270 legs etc. I thought there would be not much to lose by converting. I ran an old Land Rover for years (off road) on 10 to 1 kerosine/petrol with an occasional extra bit of petrol with 2 Head gaskets and heated air intake( box round exhaust manifold). There didn't seem to be much power loss or increased consumption.
Commercial kerosine is 75p per gallon in bulk. hence serious thoughts about conversion.
Cheers D.

 

[Guest]

RE the jets not the same thing the type I mean are very similar to a mixture screw but adjust the main jet ,it's self actually metering the fuel passing through the jet and not the fuel/air mixture ,Sounds strange don't it but you see the Zenith 24t2 carburetter has the jet at the lower side of float chamber and the adjust/screw is there .Re the kerosene great idea really, there was talk about it recently on here .
Why not gas conversion that way no need to experiment ,mind you costs a bit .
I would rather change engines sell the ones you have and put diesels in ,it's easy to do the conversion plate but maybe not the actual coupling .Lancing marine as some one else has already mentioned might have stuff available or know or where to get stuff.
Cheers Mick

http://homepage.ntlworld.com/boats
looking for an ex trawler if you see one !!

 

[philmarks]

Isn't the thickness critical, as it affects compression ratio significantly on a diesel?