Customs/ UKPA boardings

[jason -and the arguenauts]

You might well be right but if so they need to think a bit harder. What do they gain if they alienate the general public. If you've been stopped and delayed / irritated a few times by condescending uniforms, would you be as inclined to tip them, off if you saw something? I wouldnt.

They need to cultivate the law abiding 95% rather than treat them as suspects until proven innocent.

 

[l'escargot]

I would think the number of illegal immigrants in this country who came across in AWB's or MAB's is probably zero or at least insignificant. We do know however that they come in in containers, lorries, trains, planes and ferries. That is where they should concentrating their endeavours. Instead they have reduced their presence in our ports in the last 30 years.

Men in black suits with guns cannot knock on my door and walk into my house without reasonable cause, just to see if I may be committing an offence. They cannot be allowed to do the same when I am on my boat.

It is just more of the "softening up" for our slowly developing police state - "Papers please".

 

[Bobobolinsky]

What gets me is the fact that illegals come in on trucks and the truck driver gets locked up and the truck company looses it's trucks. An illegal comes in on Eurostar or a ferry, so why don't they seize the train or the ferry. Some of the SA yachties I know are armed to the teeth, one guy went north with an AK several hand guns and an RPG. Don't seem to be doing a lot about pirates these people and it remains up to individuals to protect themselves. Happy for border guards to board my boat. Nowadays they seem more interested in dipping tanks to check diesel and making sure you've paid VAT on the boat.
Overheard at a customs point at Heathrow; "Let that one go he's only got a few extra fags, this Lebanese guy is definately a drug suspect" "No this ones a Brit let the Lebanese guy go"

 

[Eastermaid]

I have no problem with border controls, what I do have a problem with is boarding parties on "domestic trips". I do not se why we should accept an invasion of our domains if the trip we are on does not involve a foreign passage.

Perhaps that's where dare I say e-borders may be useful!!! But you are probably against that.

 

[Ariadne]

Stop mouning FFS, you all voted for Gordan's totalitarian state didn't you?

HMC&E can do what what they want, always have been able to and without a warrent, So just get on with it. Anyway now you have E-borders to contend with as well!

So, will the last person to leave the country please turn the lights out? Or are you all just going to roll over, die and let what freedoms you have left be taken off you totaly? Its your call peeps - you could just get some party to change the policy then vote Gordan out you know.

 

[Vento]

The reality of all this is that there is a power struggle within the various agencies and the one with the most people and toys wins. The UKBA based on the precedent of powers they have inherited want to win this particular game. If we wanted to secure our boarders from unwanteds in thier various forms, we would use "Intelligence" (note the capital I). But this is very unexciting and does not require nearly as many toys to play wth.

I am deeply distrubed by what these people are doing. Given the reports in this forum and elswhere about the number of boardings resulting in "no result" this sounds like a near random exercise not Intelligence led and targeted interventions. Unless we say enough, and hold these people to account then we will not be safer, we will just have accepted yet another errosion of hard won civil liberties for no return.

 

[Searush]

Why do you expats complain about the UK so much? You now live in the Republic of Greece, home of democracy. Sadly, like you, it seems democracy has left home!

If you want to vote come back here & resume the right to do it, but don't tell me how to vote please, it doesn't concern you does it? The Greek authorities are clearly a lot more reasonable than the good old British Bobby

Don't believe ALL you read on here, some tell the truth, but some people exaggerate & others tell porkies to wind their fellow forumites up. When I was studying Customer Relations, it was said that if someone has a bad experience, they tell five times as many people as someone who has had a good deal. I suspect that has a relevance to this thread.

 

[Haven't-a-Clue]

This has to be a classic forum post. It would be interesting to see a plot of Puddock's blood alcohol level as this thread developed, did he pass out around 6am?

Mmm, my first thought, too..............well actually my second thought, 1st was "I say, steady on old bean".

 

[Seven Spades]

Perhaps that's where dare I say e-borders may be useful!!! But you are probably against that.

I fully support strong border controls but I don't believe that having an internet connection should be a pre-requisite to entering the country nor do I believe we should need to give advanced warning. I have no problems with random boarding of boats returning from abroad. But I am totally against someone invading my private domain when I am making coastal passages. I don't see it as any different to how you might feel if now and again
someone knocked on your front door to do a random search of your house.

Travel abroad and you have to accept border controls, I don't expect to be subject to border controls if I have not left the country.

Now do you have a problem with that?

 

[timbartlett]

The Parliamentary Ombudsman's Office (the one that deals with complaints against government department) published an annual report for 2008-09 called "Every Complaint Matters".

According to "Every Complaint Matters" the ombudsman received 16,317 complaints during the year, of which it accepted 401 for investigation. The other 15,916 were "closed" without investigation.

Can a body that rejects 97.5% of compliants without investigating them really claim that "every complaint matters?"

Or is it that a few hundred cases per year is just enough to dupe a gullible public into believing that "every complaint matters", and that there really is an official body on hand to protect our interests when some civil servant screws up?

And is this why civil servants believe that they can do what the hell they like, and get away with anything?

 

[Litotes]

You might well be right but if so they need to think a bit harder. What do they gain if they alienate the general public. If you've been stopped and delayed / irritated a few times by condescending uniforms, would you be as inclined to tip them, off if you saw something? I wouldnt.

They need to cultivate the law abiding 95% rather than treat them as suspects until proven innocent.

I have not been delayed, irritated or treated like a suspect, have not been condescended to and would not be so childish as to be influenced in an important matter by personal pique in the way you describe.

 

[Ubergeekian]

Obviously the editor of Yachting Monthly does not agree with you otherwise why did a letter on this subject get "Letter of the Month" in September?

Law abiding yachtsmen are not questioning their right to stop and search at sea. The issue of debate is why do they zoom about dressed like Darth Vader storm troopers. Why on boarding a yacht with 3 retired old codgers on a coastal sail do they carry out a long interrogation with the same attitude of serious crimes officers who have just hauled in the ringleader of an international drugs syndicate.

If I wanted to import drugs, I'd recruit three old codgers to bring it in. Far less suspicious than three young swarthy blokes with cheap suits and violin cases in a fast power boat.

 

[Robin]

I have not been delayed, irritated or treated like a suspect, have not been condescended to and would not be so childish as to be influenced in an important matter by personal pique in the way you describe.

We have been boarded many times over the years by French Customs, both when at sea and at anchor or in harbours. We were boarded by the RIB from their big cutter in Isles De Glenan this August.

We were also boarded by the men in black in the RIB from the British cutter (Searcher or Seeker) at sea 10mls off Poole last year. Additionally over the years we have been visited in local UK waters many times, even at anchor for a weekend in Studland when I was stopped and questioned taking the dog for a walk on the beach. That had to be 24 years ago since that is how long since we had a dog! We were also boarded in harbour or at anchor several times in Cornish and Devon waters also as far back as 25 years or more ago.

At no time EVER have we had cause to complain about being intimidated or even especially inconvenienced by either British or French Customs.

Are they likely to find a boatload of terrorists by doing spot checks? Hardly! What they are doing is making a point that they are out there and you could be stopped at random at any time, even in local waters. That this 'point' IS being noticed is evidenced by posts like this and others before and the word is spreading, so it must surely be worthwhile as a detterent to the average joe not to dabble with drugs, illegals or whatever. If that message also gets through to terrorist or drug smugglers they will have achieved their objective surely?

I've said before many times this activity doesn't especially bother me, but that the imposition of E-Borders DOES! This is an entirely different question, ill thought out, expensive and very probably totally ineffective. In any case OUR terrorists seem more likely to be home grown ones so unless you go through passport control getting on the M1 from Bradford or Luton and the like E-Borders will make little difference.

 

[David_Jersey]

Random Boardngs are simply an easy way of being able to claim to be "doing something", with the added bonus of not generating any more work downstream within the judicial system and being another HMG empire / employment scheme.

Deterrent? LOL! only in minds of the creators

 

[jonjo]

If I wanted to import drugs, I'd recruit three old codgers to bring it in. Far less suspicious than three young swarthy blokes with cheap suits and violin cases in a fast power boat.

And how many spritely private yacht owning yachtmasters do you know who would be willing to throw away a rewarding financially secure retirement to instead become a drugs mule?

 

[David_Jersey]

And I bet the stop and search on the high seas are not ethnically proportionate accross the whole general population.

Sounds like old Whitey might be being racially targetted - I am sure their are stats


Maybe the AWB community needs to get organised, and militant...........

 

[Major Catastrophe]

I've said before many times this activity doesn't especially bother me, but that the imposition of E-Borders DOES!

A couple of weeks ago I was chatting to the friend of an acquaintance who works for the Border Agency.

He told me that E borders was only partially about immigrants and terrorists, but mostly about the government's need to count everyone in and out of the country and provide a 'clean' database for the HMRC to cross reference against non domicile claims and other taxing issues.

 

[Marsupial]

Downthecrrek
"
It's a while since we have been boarded, but your description is, I think, pure fiction. In my experience the number of people who come aboard is two (although there may be more in the RIB), they are courteous, they make no accusations and they don't rifle through personal possessions, although they do show an interest in charts, logbooks etc.
"

Im sorry but I had to laugh at this as I have just witnessed a LONG queue of uniformed and suited yobs from all the "Governmant Agencies" jostleing for position on the pontoon trying to board a little boat here - some times I find it hard to believe that I share the same planet! I have no problem with border control but the latest breed of yob thats enforcing them behave in an unaccepatble way.

Sorry I lied, the Firebrigade were not there.

 

[Litotes]

Im sorry but I had to laugh at this as I have just witnessed a LONG queue of uniformed and suited yobs from all the "Governmant Agencies" jostleing for position on the pontoon trying to board a little boat here

Well, I see you have had the grace to remove your initial comment - to the effect that my account was "fiction" (with the implication that I am a liar) Your experience is different from mine. Simple as that. I do suspect, however, that your account as quoted above is considerably exaggerated, even if the Fire Brigade wasn't there.

 

[Sailfree]

That is not the point. The intention of "spot checks" of any sort is to establish an unpredictable environment and an expectation that you may be checked - thus adding risk to the enterprise, which will deter "casual" offenders and make it harder for others.

Sorry I think the Customs Cutter Searcher is always bedded down for the night at 17.00 so only random during their working hours