Cruising medication

Entonox was the basic pain relief in the service but I thought there was another IV drug? Not ketamine but something else. I don’t have any of my paramedic stuff here so can’t look it up.

W
I should have mentioned that we also were shown how to use Entonox (it couldn't be much simpler!) but that was only for use on base; it wasn't a practical option to carry it in the field.
Also one of the senior training officers suggested IV paracetamol.

Obviously IV access is an acquired skill but I’d be interested to know the forum doctors views.

W
I think that inserting an IV needle into a vein on a moving vessel would be pretty difficult! I've had some pretty bad experiences in a nice stable hospital ward (usually when a junior doctor didn't get out of the way and let the nurse do it!)
 
I should have mentioned that we also were shown how to use Entonox (it couldn't be much simpler!) but that was only for use on base; it wasn't a practical option to carry it in the field.

I think that inserting an IV needle into a vein on a moving vessel would be pretty difficult! I've had some pretty bad experiences in a nice stable hospital ward (usually when a junior doctor didn't get out of the way and let the nurse do it!)

I had a girl trapped under a van. I got an IV in laying on my back also under it. When we got to AE the junior dr was struggling to get another in. I joked about doing it under the van - she lost it cursed me and stormed out. The consultant who loved ‘ihis’ ambulance crews looked at me, laughing and said “I think you li$$ed her off”.

We used to do them in moving vehicles but then we were in regular practice

I would think the reason for on base only is because cold weather causes the mix of gases to separate IIRC.

W
 
I had a girl trapped under a van. I got an IV in laying on my back also under it. When we got to AE the junior dr was struggling to get another in. I joked about doing it under the van - she lost it cursed me and stormed out. The consultant who loved ‘ihis’ ambulance crews looked at me, laughing and said “I think you li$$ed her off”.

We used to do them in moving vehicles but then we were in regular practice

I would think the reason for on base only is because cold weather causes the mix of gases to separate IIRC.

W
No, it's because a two-person field party emplaced by air has pretty stringent weight restrictions. A cylinder of Entonox that might only last for an hour or so isn't in competition with a few grams of morphine that will provide pain relief for days. I'm afraid my skills in putting needles into people stops at sticking them into the upper, outer quarter of the buttock!

You make a good point, though - it's not just the effectiveness of medication but also the ease of administration that's important. Something that requires an IV line isn't practical for the vast majority of us, so there's no point in carrying it.

Perhaps I should also mention that the one time I've nearly passed out when having a needle stuck in me was when a very ham-fisted nurse was doing it! But on average, I'd rather have a nurse stick needles in me than a junior doctor.
 
No, it's because a two-person field party emplaced by air has pretty stringent weight restrictions. A cylinder of Entonox that might only last for an hour or so isn't in competition with a few grams of morphine that will provide pain relief for days. I'm afraid my skills in putting needles into people stops at sticking them into the upper, outer quarter of the buttock!

You make a good point, though - it's not just the effectiveness of medication but also the ease of administration that's important. Something that requires an IV line isn't practical for the vast majority of us, so there's no point in carrying it.

Perhaps I should also mention that the one time I've nearly passed out when having a needle stuck in me was when a very ham-fisted nurse was doing it! But on average, I'd rather have a nurse stick needles in me than a junior doctor.

Years ago I had a junior doctor ask if I wanted to do my own IV! I’m not good with needles in me so settled for the cute nurse holding my hand while he did it!

Even last year when I had my knee problems they had me laid down as they got rather concerned at my reaction to the needle!

W.
 
(Analgesics - such as ibuprofen and codeine for severe pain (codeine is a controlled drug). A really effective pain killer is important.)


Codeine itself may be a controlled drug but Paracetamol/codeine mix (co-codamol) is available over the counter.
Jut another thought, our surgery has a website and registered users can reorder repeat prescriptions using it. There is a section for which pharmacy the script is to be sent to for dispensing and collection. I realise naming a pharmacy overseas may not work as well as the local pharmacy in the Square but... just a thought.
Chris
PS I get a regular monthly prescription but never have a problem getting two month's worth if I am going away.
 
I should have mentioned that we also were shown how to use Entonox (it couldn't be much simpler!) but that was only for use on base; it wasn't a practical option to carry it in the field.

I think that inserting an IV needle into a vein on a moving vessel would be pretty difficult! I've had some pretty bad experiences in a nice stable hospital ward (usually when a junior doctor didn't get out of the way and let the nurse do it!)
Entonox, it was what the ambulance crew gave me after a riding accident did for one of my knees, once on the gas I didn't mind about the pain too much, then into hospital they gave me some form of morphine and I really didn't care at all at all, that was in 1999.
 
Re morphine, my wife was given some once while in the hospital, it seems to generate an immediate ecstatic smile.
We had it on the boat, our doctor insisted so we thought why not.
She was once hit by a very severe migraine attack, even all the pills she usually takes were useless; fortunately we were in port, after two days of severe pain, one night I just stopped her while she was sleep walking in the boat, loosely looking for the pharmacy chest while saying: morphine, morphine.
We were in Coruna, we went at 0100 AM to the local hospital, they put her with an IV with something strong, though not morphine.
The story still makes us laugh, even the children "Mom remember when you were deambulating in the dark, half asleep, saying morphine morphine" :D
 
I remember the dentist giving me a prescription for 6 Valium tablets, one to be taken 30min before a bit of surgery.
Well by the time it kicked in, relaxed did you say, if you had wanted to cut off my head I would have cheerfully held my head up for you. When I got home I wanted another, the feeling was so good, I flushed the other 5 tablets down the toilet, I never want to be that out of control of myself ever again.
 
Re morphine, my wife was given some once while in the hospital, it seems to generate an immediate ecstatic smile.
We had it on the boat, our doctor insisted so we thought why not.
She was once hit by a very severe migraine attack, even all the pills she usually takes were useless; fortunately we were in port, after two days of severe pain, one night I just stopped her while she was sleep walking in the boat, loosely looking for the pharmacy chest while saying: morphine, morphine.
We were in Coruna, we went at 0100 AM to the local hospital, they put her with an IV with something strong, though not morphine.
The story still makes us laugh, even the children "Mom remember when you were deambulating in the dark, half asleep, saying morphine morphine" :D
It's not for everyone, though. I had heavy opioid pain relief after orthopaedic surgery, and couldn't keep anything - not even water - down for two days, until they decided that I could manage without. For the next few days my day was measured by the interval between doses of co-codamol.

Worth remembering that morphine and it's derivatives are highly addictive - the study that suggested that they weren't when used for pain relief was recently disproved.
 
OK so asked some old colleagues and it was Nubian.

W
Nubain. It could only be given IV whereas morphine can be given IM if you can't get IV access. Entonox can be quite successful in managing pain in some people, quite useless in others! We also have had IV paracetamol which, in some cases, can be more effective than morphine without the side effects. I tend to use a "pain ladder" which goes something like oral pr like paracetamol or ibuprofen, entonox, IV paracetamol then morphine. It does make me smile when I ask a patient what their pain score is from 1 to 10 and they reply 10 while sitting quite comfortably and texting on their phone!
 
Nubain. It could only be given IV whereas morphine can be given IM if you can't get IV access. Entonox can be quite successful in managing pain in some people, quite useless in others! We also have had IV paracetamol which, in some cases, can be more effective than morphine without the side effects. I tend to use a "pain ladder" which goes something like oral pr like paracetamol or ibuprofen, entonox, IV paracetamol then morphine. It does make me smile when I ask a patient what their pain score is from 1 to 10 and they reply 10 while sitting quite comfortably and texting on their phone!

As said been a while but like the ones with difficulty breathing but shouting at offspring and fresh cigarettes in ash tray.

I also recall being a very new technician as it was having a rather attractive young lady making moves - I thought I was going to get raped in my own ambulance as she was so forward! My experienced crew mate suggested I took the entonox away from her :)

W
 
Also having been a patient a few times in the last couple of years I feel sorry for those that came out to me!

One was very upset I refused an IV and one rather nice lady knew that no matter what she said I wasn’t going with them.

Plus here you’ll likely end up with an ambulance, rescue unit and a full fire truck turn out.

When I collapsed in SD I had all of them. Probably 10 or more crew. That was free but when a neighbour called them when I was ill here without my knowledge they wanted $250 for just showing up.

The NHS might have some serious issues but don’t knock them

I can’t remember where I posted it but had one go past the other day and for some reason gave them a thumbs up and got the full crew returning it.

The virus is bad. I can’t remember the last 24 hrs but do 10/20 years ago

W
 
I should have mentioned that we also were shown how to use Entonox (it couldn't be much simpler!) but that was only for use on base; it wasn't a practical option to carry it in the field.

I think that inserting an IV needle into a vein on a moving vessel would be pretty difficult! I've had some pretty bad experiences in a nice stable hospital ward (usually when a junior doctor didn't get out of the way and let the nurse do it!)

It just takes practice. I did three yesterday, all in the back of a moving vehicle, but I'm doing it daily.
 
They are guidelines as I understand. I get two months of meds at a time ordinarily and without question.
Same here, as you say, they are guidelines, not hard rules. I explained to my Doc that I would be away sailing for the best part of five months and he had no problem with two month scripts. He did have a problem issuing more than two months but was ok with me repeat scripting early so about January I started reordering every month to build up a stock for five months.
 
I am a UK sailor who anticipates being afloat in less populated areas of the South Atlantic for many months, possibly a few years. I have prescribed medications which I should continue taking. My GP has dismissed out of hand providing anything beyond the standard 4 week px.
Most importantly for an ocean sailor is having an arsenal of Antibiotics. Does anybody out there have any advice? If the Vendee Globe sailors can get such things, can I???
When you get into what you can actually perform by way of medical intervention on yourself or crew it's rather sobering. Not much. For anything broken or enduring pain you need to be ashore. Fast. So apart from the obvious slings and bandages, steristrips, antiseptic creams, broad spectrum antibiotics, you are not going to need to persuade a medic to write you a scrip. Existing conditions excepted: get a private scrip and get pharmacists to bid for the business. In the UK ASDA is reliable.

I can envisage a situation where rehydration is urgently required. Get training and equipment for this purpose.

PWG
 
Top