Cruising Association and Robin KJ wade into the Schengen 90/180 day problem.

[RupertW]

The Oxford AZ vaccine is literally being shared worldwide as we speak. There's are factories in the EU, India and elsewhere. It's even being sold at cost. Vaccine sharing was the whole point of Oxford having the capacity to develop vaccines fast - they didn't anticipate they'd by used in the UK, the idea was developing countries would need them.

The UK has done more to bring vaccines in general to the world and this vaccine specifically than any other country by miles.

And you honestly think that is the way it has been played by our politicians to Europeans or how Europeans perceive it? How many of our doses have we shared with our European friends to save their lives faster. None.

 

[Sandy]

It's quite simple. Regretfully, the UK voted to leave the club. You cannot expect the same benefits when you a no longer a member.

How many people expect a welcome and the free use of club they are no longer a member of?

 

[Daydream believer]

deleted as this would be better in the lounge

 

[dunedin]

I've already explained my use of the word. it was essentially a riposte to the suggestion that there was anything unfair about the arrangement. I pointed out that HMG decided it was not to be a part of their negotiations, c'est tout. UK citizens have the same access rights to the Schengen area as those of any other third country with visa-free access, which is fair.

However, I have seen it reported (though not checked to source so may be incorrect) that the UK offers better arrangements (180 days instead of 90 days?) to EU visitors to the UK.
In which case we managed to “negotiate” much worse than reciprocal arrangements with the EU. Indeed I think the RYA may have suggested this was offered but the UK negotiators declined it?

 

[TiggerToo]

Better to work behind the scenes.

and campaign to re-join the EU. FoM an' all

 

[GrahamD]

Me too. It's exactly what lots of us expected from Brexit. They put "End Free Movement" on billboards and cheered it. Anyone who professes surprise that free movement is now ended is either a liar or a moron.

Pete

Or both..

 

[doug748]

Partcularly one which demands an exemption specifically for yacht owners. Tone deaf or what?

Even more bizarre:

"The CA President and 180-Day Campaign spokesman Julian Dussek said that whilst the CA couldn’t be sure its approach would succeed, it was ‘also directly approaching key cruising countries to seek 180-day cruising visas for members."


.

 

[JumbleDuck]

However, I have seen it reported (though not checked to source so may be incorrect) that the UK offers better arrangements (180 days instead of 90 days?) to EU visitors to the UK.
In which case we managed to “negotiate” much worse than reciprocal arrangements with the EU. Indeed I think the RYA may have suggested this was offered but the UK negotiators declined it?

As far as I can see, the deal for EU citizens is a maximum of six months, but once they have left they can come straight back for another six months - but only as genuine visitors, which may be an easier case to make if staying on a boat is involved.

There is no 180 day a year rule for visitors to the UK | Free Movement

 

[Frogmogman]

However, I have seen it reported (though not checked to source so may be incorrect) that the UK offers better arrangements (180 days instead of 90 days?) to EU visitors to the UK.
In which case we managed to “negotiate” much worse than reciprocal arrangements with the EU. Indeed I think the RYA may have suggested this was offered but the UK negotiators declined it?

There has been no negotiation as such in this situation.

The standard deal for visitors to the UK who are eligible to visit visa free is 6 months (be they from the EU or the rest of the world). The standard deal for visitors to the Schengen area who are eligible to visit visa free is 90/180.

It would hardly make sense for the UK to change the status quo for EU visitors compared to visitors from elsewhere as regards it's own arrangements. The EU will not change the Schengen rules for UK citizens without being asked so to do by the UK.

 

[steve yates]

It is not a simple case of "Blame" it was a decision made by the negotiating team during a difficult period based on the importance of many relevant issues. Under normal circumstances one would have expected to iron out any sideline issues over a period following the main deal.
Is that not a reasonable assumption. I think it is because the deal includes for the establishment for committees for just about every section of the arrangement.
These should be established sometime in the future but it should be recognised that the EU have not ratified the deal yet, so the committees cannot be set up at this time. I am not party to the timeline for the establishment of these committees it will take time & i am not sure how ammendments will be written in . What does concern me is that "remoaner whitehall mandrins" may use them to sign away some of the benefits of Brexit & the original intentions of the nation.
However, to date the EU ( who you suggest holds no fault) is being difficult over a range of matters.
Any friendly trading partner would sit down & hone the deal to become more workable. So in the matter of blame - perhaps your comment should be re considered

It didnt need a committee set up to look at it afterwards, and it didn't need to impact on other important matters. Uk was OFFERED 180/365 for its citizens and declined. All it required was a stroke of the pen.

 

[CAPTAIN FANTASTIC]

The Sailing community, and so may other communities and industries (Science Research & Development, Fishing industry, London Financial sector, Farming etc) are paying the price for UK leaving the EU. Those who actually believed that we could leave the EU but keep all the benefits we had while in the EU were very naive.

 

[Stemar]

"Blame" may not be the best word here. However it was always obvious that this would be an outcome of Brexit, so not very good to bleat about it now.
As for your comment on "friendly trading partner", it was we who decided to leave the EU club, and Farage who publicly ridiculed many of their representatives. Bit much to expect a truly friendly response now. Over time things may relax and improve, but for now we are the instigator of all these "inconveniences". The British people have spoken.
(Wish they hadn't).

Only a Brexiteer would be able to bend their logic enough to say that

I'm a remainer and I rather agree with Resolution. It's possible that the EU would have added another layer of incompetence had we not left (Gpd knows, we've enough of our own), or we could have done what the French do when an EU rule doesn't suit them and just ignore it. I'm far from convinced it would have been an issue. We got our vaccines sorted quicker than the EU, so we're first in the queue. Given the death toll in the UK compared with most other countries, we need it more.

As for the original issue of length of stay, while we were members, we could do pretty much what we liked. Now we've gone, we can't. Those are standard rules, and an entirely predictable result of Brexit, like it or lump it. It's pain to some of us, including me, but welcome to the sunlit uplands...

 

[RupertW]

I'm a remainer and I rather agree with Resolution. It's possible that the EU would have added another layer of incompetence had we not left (Gpd knows, we've enough of our own), or we could have done what the French do when an EU rule doesn't suit them and just ignore it. I'm far from convinced it would have been an issue. We got our vaccines sorted quicker than the EU, so we're first in the queue. Given the death toll in the UK compared with most other countries, we need it more.

As for the original issue of length of stay, while we were members, we could do pretty much what we liked. Now we've gone, we can't. Those are standard rules, and an entirely predictable result of Brexit, like it or lump it. It's pain to some of us, including me, but welcome to the sunlit uplands...

Just to clarify my remark was a reply to Daydream Believer (wonderfully name apt in this situation) not Resolution whose comment I agreed with and liked (and as it happens apart from the vaccine part I‘m in agreement with you)

 

[Tomaret]

A broader petition calling for the government to negotiate 180/360 day visa free stays has been active since August and attracted 14000 votes.

Petition: Lobby to negotiate equal visa rights for U.K. citizens with property in EU area

Given all that is going on at the minute, you can’t help but think that Whitehall is right not to give this much attention if second home owners, RV owners and long term cruisers together can’t muster more votes than that in six months. A petition to protect hedgehogs has got more votes.

If you were a non-sailing MP in a marginal seat would you stick your neck out for yachties? If you had a healthy majority you would probably not even bother replying to any approach from a constituent ( based on my experience in a rosette on a pig constituency).

Who knows what slight to the ERG might have been perceived if our “negotiators” had accepted reciprocal rights for visiting the EU - I can’t think why else the EUs offer wasn’t accepted. Now, if and when the Government gets round to asking if it’s still on the table presumably there will be a quid quo pro required. Will it be a price we want to pay?

 

[Boathook]

And you honestly think that is the way it has been played by our politicians to Europeans or how Europeans perceive it? How many of our doses have we shared with our European friends to save their lives faster. None.

I'm under the impression that the EU has plenty of the astra zeneca vaccine but no one wants it since a few EU countries said it was no good; which is now being proved incorrect. If they can't use it they can pass it on to other countries who will happily use it.

 

[RupertW]

I'm under the impression that the EU has plenty of the astra zeneca vaccine but no one wants it since a few EU countries said it was no good; which is now being proved incorrect. If they can't use it they can pass it on to other countries who will happily use it.

A million or so spare yes, but that is peanuts compared to the amount of vaccine we are producing and jabbing each week. My point is that the EU countries still believe it is more important to be fair to each other than selfish, even at the price of efficiency. So it’s horribly bad timing for the ”I’m Alright Jack” country to start pleading about being nice to our second homers and longterm sailors”.

 

[ip485]

Wow, I dont understand the anamosity.

Leaving aside all the politics, and even the timing, I thought we are all sailors?

OK, some will never venture beyond the UK, and good for them.

However, dont we all also share the freedom sailing gives. The concept of living on your boat, pretty much self sufficient, other than spending your money in local shops and supporting the local yachting industry.

Do we not recognise that sailing isnt a quick fix activity? It takes time, it isnt the same as diving in and out of the usual tourists spots on SleazyJet.

Dont we share long crusing traditions with our European friends?

So, forget the politics, as sailors, the principle must surely be very sound, and if sailors with their own roof over their head can be given a way of cruising around the Med., or France, Spain or whereever, and we can welcome our European friends in the same way it must be a welcome aspiration.

Why so selfish and small minded? Why has this anything to do with vaccines or Brexit? It should be about representing our leisure activity and recognising many boat owners aspire to going abroad and taking a leisurely cruise and not getting confused with the humdrum of populist journalism about why should we and why shouldnt we!

 

[Iliade]

I can see why this petition has attracted so few signatures:
Sign petition
Lobby to negotiate equal visa rights for U.K. citizens with property in EU area

Much like the Brexit referendum, the people for whom the issue has the greatest importance aren't allowed to vote because they aren't currently resident in the UK...

 

[Babylon]

Much like the Brexit referendum, the people for whom the issue has the greatest importance aren't allowed to vote because they aren't currently resident in the UK...

Yes, they've been had... as the saying goes.

Here's a question: when we had the referendum to join the EEC in the early 1970s were ex-pat British citizens allowed to vote?

 

[Tranona]

Deleted