Croatia vignette increases for 2018 (?)

[Metabarca]

I have heard that the Croatian marinas have got together and made an official complaint to the relevant ministry but I'm not holding my breath...
Logically, the ministry should also be charging caravan and camera owners for the beds their vehicles have rather than just the number of people, but I doubt that is the case.
As for the cruise ship argument, if these are a problem (and they are), why not simply refuse them a berth? Venice is moving (very slowly) in that direction, and I would expect (hope) that there be a disembarkation fee (€20?) that goes straight to the city coffers for each passenger. Airports charge it: why not cruise terminals?

 

[Flica]

Who knows if the Tourist Ministry are using the Sojourn Tax as a means to limit tourism or as a means to raise as much revenue as possible? I suspect the later.

Regardless of the intention it is still a totally unfair system as regards yachts. As far as I can tell every other section of the Tourist Industry (hotels, villas, campsites etc) has to account for the Sojourn Tax on a per person per night basis, with discounts for less favourable areas, off seasons and children. Only yachts have to pay a lump sum Sojourn Tax based only on vessel length and basically assuming that the vessel is filled to capacity at all times. If hotels et al can account for the tax per person per night then why can the yachting section of the tourist industry not be allowed to do the same? It is hardly a difficult process to administer.

The only section of the industry to be hit with such staggering increases in the Sojourn Tax is yachting with price hikes of up to 753%. The rest of the industry has had a maximum increase of 14% with some tax brackets not being increased at all. It is clear that the Tourism Ministry has decided that yachts are a viable target for maximising tax income and they probably believe this increase will have little or no impact on visitor numbers.
I wonder how the Sojourn Tax is implemented and policed with regards to Croatian owners who keep their own boats in marinas for their own personal useage - they are legally obliged to pay the same rates when they use their boats, but do they actually do so?
People may argue that the yachting tourists have more money and so should pay more but the hotel rate is the same for everyone regardless of wether you have a budget €40 room or a luxury €1000 suite, it seems yachting is being taxed in a totally unfair manner compared to other tourist industries.

I think people may have missed the point.
When I first went to Croatia the vignette was a very reasonable sum - however a manager in one of the marinas, told me that in early days most of their visitors were owner-boats, "now 90% are charter boats".

The Croatian tourist ministry is trying to reserve their waters for their charter boats and want to dissuade manky old boat owners from trying to go there and use their limited waters.

There is a groundswell of official opinion that tourism is the ultimate in pollution, and I suspect that cruise-liner companies are going to find they are increasingly taxed by countries they visit.

As Adam Smith remarked (and I translate loosely), "taxes should be easy to collect, not fair"

 

[nortada]

I think people may have missed the point.
When I first went to Croatia the vignette was a very reasonable sum - however a manager in one of the marinas, told me that in early days most of their visitors were owner-boats, "now 90% are charter boats".

The Croatian tourist ministry is trying to reserve their waters for their charter boats and want to dissuade manky old boat owners from trying to go there and use their limited waters.

There is a groundswell of official opinion that tourism is the ultimate in pollution, and I suspect that cruise-liner companies are going to find they are increasingly taxed by countries they visit.

As Adam Smith remarked (and I translate loosely), "taxes should be easy to collect, not fair"

Are the boats or the owners old and manky

Possibly both

 

[glynhome]

As harbourmasters want payment in cash, it's going to take a few visits to the ATM and a wheelbarrow to make my annual payment.
So after a relaxed 5 years happily feeding the Croatian tourist economy with marina fees, services with 25% VAT and regular meals out, the time has come to use the hook, DIY and eat on board. They clearly don't consider that we have choices.

 

[Flica]

As harbourmasters want payment in cash, it's going to take a few visits to the ATM and a wheelbarrow to make my annual payment.
So after a relaxed 5 years happily feeding the Croatian tourist economy with marina fees, services with 25% VAT and regular meals out, the time has come to use the hook, DIY and eat on board. They clearly don't consider that we have choices.

Of course you have - what they want to persuade you to do is to free up facilities for their charter-boats - far more national income from them than private owner-cruisers.
All outlined to me by one of the Gruz vignette issuers in 2009.

 

[RichardS]

As harbourmasters want payment in cash, it's going to take a few visits to the ATM and a wheelbarrow to make my annual payment.
So after a relaxed 5 years happily feeding the Croatian tourist economy with marina fees, services with 25% VAT and regular meals out, the time has come to use the hook, DIY and eat on board. They clearly don't consider that we have choices.

Of course you have - what they want to persuade you to do is to free up facilities for their charter-boats - far more national income from them than private owner-cruisers.
All outlined to me by one of the Gruz vignette issuers in 2009.

As long as you realise that just because you don't use marinas or town quays or try to leave the country doesn't mean that you don't have to buy the Vignette.

There's less chance of being caught and fined, of course, but there's still a risk especially if you ever suffer any serious technical / navigational problems.

Richard

 

[BrianH]

As long as you realise that just because you don't use marinas or town quays or try to leave the country doesn't mean that you don't have to buy the Vignette.

There's less chance of being caught and fined, of course, but there's still a risk especially if you ever suffer any serious technical / navigational problems.

Richard

These patrol boats cruise the anchorages checking for such things as the current vignette. I witnessed their modus operandi when they went alongside an anchored, Austrian neigbour in the Istrian Soline bay and gave him a very hard time for not having an ensign or courtesy flag showing. After searching his boat and checking all documents, they waited until he had hoisted both before leaving. They checked no one else in the fairly crowded anchorage but I wouldn't have liked not having a current vignette with them cruising by, those ones were not very friendly.

The HM office when clearing in at a port of entry is certainly centrally linked and my full details are immediately retrieved from previous years when I have arrived in the past. I can well imagine that these patrol boats have also links to the system and may not have to board to have a good idea about any vessel in their waters from name and flag nationality.

 

[jimbaerselman]

Two factors causing this increase in prices (however they're collected) haven't been mentioned.

First is a notable surge in demand for small boat cruising over the last year, especially in motor boats - affecting both owned boats, and charter fleets.

Second is the exodus of non-resident's and charter boats from Turkey; most noticeably to Greece and Croatia.

There's now a shortage of resources to handle this traffic in the popular cruising areas of both countries.

Ignoring sojourn tax, popular area yacht support facility prices are rising significantly. They will rise until more suppliers see the bigger profits - and invest. Typically, returns need to be >10% better to tempt new suppliers. That often means new businesses have to charge >20% more, because they don't yet know all the wrinkles to keeping their internal costs low.

€3,000 berthing becomes €3,600 over time. That's not wildly out of line with the sojourn taxes increase for many users. Yes, some get a much bigger kick. Some don't.

You can moan about, but can't fight, facility's cost rises.

You can move. To a less popular area, with more difficult access, less to see or do. Or do the bigger sums and change country.

Perhaps sailors should be culled to maintain the status quo instead?

Compared with the western Med, both Croatia and Greece will remain very good value. Especially for those who like out-of-the-way places. There are very few of those left in the west med.

JimB

 

[RichardS]

My marina just emailed me to say that the Croatian Marina Association met yesterday with representatives from across the industry and have submitted a strongly-worded protest resolution to the Government to say that the proposed increase in the Sojourn/Tourist Tax is unwarranted and unfair to boat users who routinely pay a much higher per capita charge than other tourists.

The Association are now awaiting a response from the Government so further news in due course.

Richard

 

[BrianH]

My marina just emailed me to say that the Croatian Marina Association met yesterday with representatives from across the industry and have submitted a strongly-worded protest resolution to the Government to say that the proposed increase in the Sojourn/Tourist Tax is unwarranted and unfair to boat users who routinely pay a much higher per capita charge than other tourists.

The Association are now awaiting a response from the Government so further news in due course.

Richard

This subject has generated much critical comment in the German yachting press, which also reports a Croatian nautical "storm" brewing in the local sailing forum "Nautica portal". So much so that the tourism minister Gari Capelli, who previously had refused to acknowledge any contact on the subject, was driven to try to defend the increase and saying that: "the increase was not so tragic, boat-owners should register only when on board, making the yearly cost more favourable". That response seems to have backfired as it was immediately criticised by: "the minister has now reached the Trump level of "alternative facts"". At the same time, a parliamentary discussion in Zagreb on the subject scheduled for the 19th October, was unexpectedly cancelled.

It would seem that Croatians themselves are just as appalled as we are and that internal pressures are currently active to try to adapt this directive.

 

[alexsailor]

@jimbaerselman
Small motor boats are not "the problem" that would cause such a dramatic increase of Tourist tax. Look the table with prices on the first page of this tread.

The problem is that Croatia is proabably the biggest player in charter market and everything is subordinate to that.

Marinas did nothing trough Croatian Marina Association when they should- when the law was still in the stage "of reading".
Now the marinas (also mine) are telling us that they are pressing to the goverment... Yea right... Too late for that...

What will happen? We will pay the tax and that is how it goes. My boat fits into range from 12 to 15m so my yearly tax would be 1050 eur.
I guess I will move budget from other things (restaurants etc) to this...

But for all of you liveaboard cruiser Croatia was already expensive so far. And it is getting worse.
To get the whole picutre, you have to understand Croatian way of thinking.

All I can say is that I really, really hope that Greece will not follow this stupid move.

What @Barbac1e is posting is really taking place. Stupid tourism minister Capelli (Italian surname) does not know what he is talking about. There is a video of this interview but it is in Croatian language..

Croatia is mafia land with posttraumatic war sindrom.
Just look what happend to Hrovatinčič case (he killed an Italian sailing couple- I wrote about that in another thread): the case is that he is set free!!!

And another thing: now when the season is over I visit my boat in the marina during weekends and I am drinking coffee with locals. They are all aware of this tourist tax increase. And what is their reaction? They agree with that!!! Not everyone, but majority!
When all the hassle began, the croatian nautical forums users were writing: well forigners, you have to pay to "use" our sea... But when they realised that it also affects them, they went quiet.

F... them all. Unfortunately Croatia is close to my home and I am using their marinas... So are many of Austrians, Germans, Hungarians....
But summer time I sail in Greece where, so far, I can feel free.

 

[crisjones]

Alexsailor
You only have to pay the sojourn tax when your are on board the boat in Croatia so you do not need to pay the full annual amount if you spend most of the summer in Greece and do not stay on board in the winter. You could maybe geat away with a 15day payment at the beginning of the season and another 15day payment to get back to your marina. Obviously if you live aboard during the winter it will be different.

The tax increase is still likely to mean lots of people will not visit Croatia next year and of course the charter companies simply pass it onto their customers so maybe they will not try too hard to get it changed.

I said in an earlier post that the main problem with this sojourn tax is that it is very unfairly implemented on yachts because of the blanket charge only based on yacht length and not the number of persons on the boat. Every other part of the tourist industry in Croatia implement the tax on a per person, per night basis, at least if the same system was used for yachts it would be seen to be fair across the whole tourist industry. However I doubt the government have any interest it a fair system - they just think yachts are a good target to get extra revenue.
It would also seem the Charter companies make their own rules - we met some friends on a charter boat about 2 months ago, there was 7 of them on the yacht for two weeks and the charter company charged them per person per night for the sojourn tax NOT the fixed 15 day rate based on boat length that they should have paid. This meant they paid about €80 more than they should have done, no doubt this extra went into the charter company coffers after they paid the official 15 day rate?? I bet if there had only been 4 people on the yacht the charter company would have charged the standard 15 day rate since per person per night would then have been less??

 

[RichardS]

My marina have emailed me and have reduced my marina fees for 2018 compared to 2017 by EUR550 so that I am exactly back to where I started from.

I didn't ask them for the reduction as I already pay over EUR2000 pa less then the published price.

The Manager just said that they wanted to help as they feel that the new Tourist charges are unfair and they value my custom.

That's what I call customer service.

Richard

 

[RupertW]

My marina have emailed me and have reduced my marina fees for 2018 compared to 2017 by EUR550 so that I am exactly back to where I started from.

I didn't ask them for the reduction as I already pay over EUR2000 pa less then the published price.

The Manager just said that they wanted to help as they feel that the new Tourist charges are unfair and they value my custom.

That's what I call customer service.

Richard

Yup - we found them very good on fees once we got to know them , and the office people were really welcoming when they recognised us this summer after a 3 year absence. I'd be tempted to move the daysail back to them for next year if we weren't already planning to end the season in Spain.

 

[sailaboutvic]

My marina have emailed me and have reduced my marina fees for 2018 compared to 2017 by EUR550 so that I am exactly back to where I started from.

I didn't ask them for the reduction as I already pay over EUR2000 pa less then the published price.

The Manager just said that they wanted to help as they feel that the new Tourist charges are unfair and they value my custom.

That's what I call customer service.

Richard

That's Greats regards Richard , except it make me feel that they don't think this taxs is going to be hit on he head ,
For then to make an offer so early .

 

[alexsailor]

@crisjones
Do you really believe that you could explain Croatian port police or police when they will stop you on the sea, that you are the second day on the boat (in case you buy 8-day tourist tax)?
I do not think so.
This is just one stupid "explanatiaon" of the minister of tourism. He does not know what he is talking about.

Tourist tax for boats in Croatian marians was always something that was paid annualy. Ten years ago I would pay 50eur to marina and every time I visited it, they would take my perosnal document (and all others with me) and just put in in the system for the time I was about to sleep on the boat.
Later the cost went up and you have to pay it on Kapetanija (Port police). It is still like that.

There are many reasons but as said before: Croatia is "Disneyland" for charter, and individual boat owners are a dying species.
Every year you get more and more beautiful and SECURE bays filled with muoring buoys, marinas cost more (@RichardS: where do you keep your boat-you can send me PM) etc...
Nevertheless there are things I choose to pay (marina berth, dinner at a local restaurant etc...). But taxes that do not give me benefit (new lighthouses, marks etc...) are a waste for me.
But that is how the world turns... more and more taxes...
Shame is that sailing, cruising is loosing its charm....And I was a dreamer, that my sailing yacht will give me freedom.

 

[alexsailor]

 

[crisjones]

@crisjones
Do you really believe that you could explain Croatian port police or police when they will stop you on the sea, that you are the second day on the boat (in case you buy 8-day tourist tax)?
I do not think so.

Alexsailor, obviously you understand the ways of Croatia and the officials much better than I do but if the Police stop you and the Sojourn Tax Receipt you have on the boat is valid for the day you are stopped then how can there be a problem? Surely it makes no difference if you have a Sojourn Tax receipt for 8, 15, 30 or 90 days - as long as it covers you on the day you are checked then it should be OK?

If the Police can prove they have seen you on board or sailing your boat when you do not have a valid Sojourn Tax then of course they can fine you.

 

[alexsailor]

there is a logic in what you are saying
but not in Croatia. sorry.

 

[RichardS]

I'm in Kremik marina. I moved there from Agana in 2013.

For the first couple of years we used to buy the short term Tourist tax every time we went down to the boat but once you start going 3 or 4 times a year it becomes easier to pay the annual amount and only slightly more expensive. However, in future, it might well be worth going back to short term payments.

Richard