Crisis, help urgently needed.

[prv]

If strops could be put under the hull, wouldn't it be possible to tie these around water-filled oil drums, either side, before pumping air into the drums to expel the water? A kind of inexpensive salvage bag, but without the need for the depth bags require...?

Yesss...

Trouble is, you'd need to fill all the drums at exactly the same rate, otherwise the first one to get positively buoyant will rise first, as it rises the pressure reduces and air expands, so it rises faster, etc, and the whole thing becomes unstable and may even result in the boat slipping out of the strops. See this story: http://www.yachtmollymawk.com/2011/02/the-fall-and-rise-of-duck/ for an example of how difficult it is to get a controlled multi-bag lift even with multiple divers, clear water, and a small boat.

You'd also, I guess, need a hell of a lot of drums to lift this trawler.

Pete

 

[ralf2]

I have seen a trawler refloated with the help of tide, many pumps and large plastic type tarpaulins .
The tarps were used to block all the holes underwater the water pressure helped keep them in place along with ropes passed underneath and then pulled tight like a skin to the hull, then at low water get them pumps working and beach it if necessary.

 

[pvb]

I have seen a trawler refloated with the help of tide, many pumps and large plastic type tarpaulins .
The tarps were used to block all the holes underwater the water pressure helped keep them in place along with ropes passed underneath and then pulled tight like a skin to the hull, then at low water get them pumps working and beach it if necessary.

How would you pass ropes underneath when it's sitting on the bottom?

 

[fireball]

I have seen a trawler refloated with the help of tide, many pumps and large plastic type tarpaulins .
The tarps were used to block all the holes underwater the water pressure helped keep them in place along with ropes passed underneath and then pulled tight like a skin to the hull, then at low water get them pumps working and beach it if necessary.

Sounds like the start of a more sensible suggestion - tarps along the side where the additional leaks are likely to be - then pump out - if you can get enough pumps to pump fast enough

How would you pass ropes underneath when it's sitting on the bottom?

don't have to go underneath - just diagonally down ... the rope just holds it in place - you're not lifting the boat with them!

 

[tyce]

The other point worth raising is the water in the dock, I have been there a few times and each time I think to myself how unpleasant it would be to fall in the water, it is really disgusting in there. The water is pretty much stagnant and the dock has numerous liveaboards flushing into it.
You are seriously risking your health. Tell your son it's his mess, he's the one whom decided not to insure it, but it would seem that he now wants everyone to sort out his mess.
Walk away, I suspect the boat will still be lying on the bottom in 10 years time.

 

[simon barefoot]

C'mon , don't be so negative. I know it's sunk, and I think I saw that it was 64tons displacement, but that doesn't mean it needs 64 tons lift to sort it out. As someone has said, just enough to give it marginally positive buoyancy and then tow it somewhere where it can be pumped out as the tide drops. Even cut a bigger hole to drain the water so that it's own weight doesn't rupture it. Then patch it temporarily and get it into a state where you can take a realistic view as to it's future.
How? Not my area of expertise. but a bit more encouragement may spark some ideas. It's hardly fair to anyone just to leave it where it is, is it?

 

[Daydream believer]

There has been a lot of talk about airbags but the first problem would be finding some at a low cost
It has occurred to me that some building sites place airbags in areas as a fall arest system instead of netting.
They are low pressure & are placed in rooms etc & inflated to fill the gap ready for someone falling
I have not seen them myself but they are available for hire & possibly small or large enough to distribute throughout the boat. Not as high tek as dedicated flotation bags but strong
Someone could do a google search & find a local firm who might consider as an experiment a different use for them

 

[Avocet]

How far down is the boat? I don't think that dock's very deep and I'm pretty certain it's very soft mud on the bottom. As has been said, it will have SOME buoyancy, so you won't have to lift the full 64 tons, but even so, I fear you'll need more oil drums than you can fit round it - especially with one side up against the quay. Can you ask the harbourmaster how low he could possible get the water in the dock, and then work out how much of the boat will be below the water? If, for example, with the dock lever at it's lowest possible point, you only need to extend part of the gunwhales a few feet upwards to get them above the water level, and can then get some mahoosive pumping power, you might JUST be able to get the thing to start lifting. Anybody know what the volume of an oil drum is? I think something like 200 litres, so in round numbers, each one will lift about 200kg IF you can spread the load evenly round it. It probably won't be any use just putting ropes or straps round it because they'll crush it locally, you'll need something like a fishing net over each one. I can't guess as to how much buoyancy the boat will have, but to lift 64 tons you'd need 300-odd.

Perhaps the first thing is a thorough inspection of the damage though. If it was ironwork poking out from the side of the quay, I'm guessing it won't be a neat hole. As the boat settled it will have become a tear, presumably?

 

[TradewindSailor]

This boat is supposed to have watertight zones. Even if they have been compromised it must be possible to make them good enough to let in less water than can be pumped out. There are also large fuel tanks and water tanks ..... although these will be in the bottom and you wouldn't want to capsize the boat. There should also be lots of ballast .... provided it's not encased in concrete it should be able to remove it. The anchors and chain should also be removed too.

 

[contessaman]

well theres no point of people on here saying he should have had insurance. I really am sorry for whats happened. whats done is done it cant be changed. Now the question is how to move forward. Presumably if your son just walked away from it all the harbour authorities would have to do something in order to dispose of the wreck anyway right? can you ascertain what their actions would be if he washed his hands with it? because if they would end up a) somehow raising her her then b) having to dispose of the wreckage then surely they can see that it would be better and cheaper for all to just do the first bit and then your son get it beached somewhere. when all is said and done I cant believe they will just let it sit there taking up space and causing pollution just because the owner did not have wreck removal insurance cover. If he's not got many worldly possesions he doesn't really have anything to loose ( declare bankrupcy) and whats the worse that could happen? they try to sell the recovered wreck afterwards for something like a 'pound and other considerations' and you buy it back for him. they'll just want shot of it. please dont risk your life and limb for an old hulk. if the authorities would intend to chop it up in situ then I still think it would be more economical (not to mention safer) to throw in the towel with this boat and purchase another. could your son move in with you for a bit and find some work to restore his finances a little then re-attack?
good luck whatever happens. just remember, boats can be replaced, money comes and goes but never risk your health or life over an object. I dont just mean a diving accident either - stress for the both of you can be just as damaging.
once again, good luck.

 

[rbcoomer]

Perhaps I'm wide of the mark here as I'm no salvage expert, but buoyancy inside the vessel is surely the most effective? It will displace water AND add lift - less water to pump out and less weight to 'lift'. So, if you were to take an oversized tarp into each of the sections within the boat, starting at the bow, anchor the edges as close to the floor as possible and feed in an airline from a portable compressor on the dock... Assuming there are no sharp internals to rip the tarp, you should be able to inflate a 'bubble' to add buoyancy. Once the bow starts to lift, is it possible to pack under the keel with water filled barrels, pipe sections or other suitable objects? It's surely only worth pumping when you can ensure a flow rate that exceeds the speed it can refill and I can't see that happening without significant external buoyancy, large drop in water level or displacing some of the water inside.

 

[PeteE]

View attachment 31276

Did it work?

Yes.

Yet another long shot - buy a LONG roll of HEAVY gauge polyethylene sheeting (as used on construction sites) - reposition all warps over top of guardrail and then wrap the sheeting completely around the outside of the hull (more than once if possible). Attach top of sheeting to guardrail and fix weights to the bottom edge. Those guardrails look substantial - and may just support the sheeting to allow it to seal while you pump out. The Yanks did something similar to "amphibious-ise"?? battle tanks for the Normandy landings. The sheeting is about 3m wide so should seal any minor hull openings to 2.5+ m below guardrail level - in addition to isolating the major openings at deck level. You may need to rig up extensions to the stern section rail. Also may need to line outside of guardrail with (say) 6mm ply to prevent poly sheet from being forced between rails (and maybe tack bottom of sheet to hull as low as possible - with battens). Well, I'd give it a shot anyway.....

If its a case of all hands to the pumps I've got a 1" dirty water pump 240v you're welcome to. I may be able to come with it if time permits - but Fleetwood!!?.

As others have said - things could easily go pear shaped so make sure you've covered all the risks.

 

[Graham_Wright]

Beat me to it! I have absolutely no expertise in salvage, but that strikes me as the only potentially feasible DIY way to go. If you can just get the waterlogged hulk to float even slightly, I think Fleetwood used to have a big trolley on rails on a slipway for hauling trawlers out.

They did but no more!

 

[Graham_Wright]

They are all good points but they have all been addressed in posts together with the picture.

 

[fisherman]

If I'm right you can't dive outside the hull (H&S, earlier post) so difficult to get plastic sheeting round her.
I was pressure washing yesterday and it is easy to blast a way under the keel in soft mud, and then 'blow' a rope through to puil strops through, but the viz would be nil and it's too dangerous to be under the hull. In any case there is insufficient water to get flotation bags round her, they are taller than the water depth needed to lift her, and dockside weight limit means no crane.
It has to be sheeting somehow, preferably deployed from boats with lowered water. 3 metre wide heavy gauge polythene, roll each end round a batten and secure, haul along the hull each side and wrap round the bow and stern. Once you start pumping the outside pressure will seal it. You could stuff the hull with 200 litre drums and blow the water out of them one by one, but dangerous to be inside with them, limited results, and you would probably lift the deck.
The last call would be demolition in situ, but still the 2 ton weight problem for a machine to do it.

 

[savageseadog]

The OP, Graham should be careful the authorities don't get the idea he might be the owner!

 

[Graham_Wright]

If I'm right you can't dive outside the hull (H&S, earlier post) so difficult to get plastic sheeting round her.
I was pressure washing yesterday and it is easy to blast a way under the keel in soft mud, and then 'blow' a rope through to puil strops through, but the viz would be nil and it's too dangerous to be under the hull. In any case there is insufficient water to get flotation bags round her, they are taller than the water depth needed to lift her, and dockside weight limit means no crane.
It has to be sheeting somehow, preferably deployed from boats with lowered water. 3 metre wide heavy gauge polythene, roll each end round a batten and secure, haul along the hull each side and wrap round the bow and stern. Once you start pumping the outside pressure will seal it. You could stuff the hull with 200 litre drums and blow the water out of them one by one, but dangerous to be inside with them, limited results, and you would probably lift the deck.
The last call would be demolition in situ, but still the 2 ton weight problem for a machine to do it.

Solid advice. Latest scheme is that I have found a 2000 litre/min pump (at 7m) at a reasonable hire price. Mark's intention is to use that to pump the forepeak and the 5 smaller ones the fish hold to try to raise the bow until any damage becomes visible. (Pumping just the forepeak might put too much strain on the hull). Having located the damage, sheet as you have suggested or nail plywood patches over. Then allow her to sink again until the next tide. Hopefully, the next pumping session should allow her to rise further and then perhaps expose any more damage and possibly allow access to the forepeak to plug the hydraulic pipes of which there are 4 around 1 1'4" and which are transferring water from the fish hold. At least, while she stays submerged, no further damage should occur as the bottom is alleged to be soft mud and indeed the hull planks should continue to swell.

 

[mtb]

But Lets get back to practicalities...

The first thing to establish is whether the "protruding ironwork" is still protruding through the hull....and therefore seriously in the way of applying any patch. If it is then the situation could be very much more complicated....

But... one step at a time...

Best Wishes and good luck with it.

At last some one who thinks about the problem
If your lucky the steel or what ever is still stuck in so you have the start point to then concentrate on that area re damage
If possible I'd have tarpaulins ready to pull under the hull as it rises to stop as much water seeping back in when you start pumping and the hull lifts, there's nout worse than seeing the hull lift then get to a certain point and sink yet again because the pump cant cope
if the top sides are clear of the water at low tide batten down hatches tight use expanding foam on any holes
You need to pump just what's inside the hull even the deck may need sealing with tarpaulins

My main thought would be the engine and box, if it has an oil pump on the sump, pump until the waters out, pop the injectors out and get the injection pump and lift pump off to clean em through with fresh diesel. if possible turn the engine by hand to clear any water in the cylinders. change the oil and filters strip and rebuild the starter and so on.
Get that engine running ASAP then change the oil / filters again after a few hours running
If you leave it every thing will corrode
big boats cost big you cant not be insured, it's mad

Has the marina given permission for salvage to begin ? they might not allow any one but a salvage company in to raise it and manage the pollution risk, granted there wont be much unless the tanks were opened up but the risk of pollution and the implied costs of a clear up are scary

mick

 

[Graham_Wright]

My main thought would be the engine and box, if it has an oil pump on the sump, pump until the waters out, pop the injectors out and get the injection pump and lift pump off to clean em through with fresh diesel.

mick

That's a good idea. The others are not on as has been addressed in the other posts. Thanks.

 

[Bobobolinsky]

If the hole is only six inches square, get a matress and wedge it in the hole, sheet of ply over that and use acro props to hold it in position. Alternatively strong backs between the ribs (can't remember if she was steel ribbed) and sliding wedges. When that is complete, you must make the bulkheads water tight, wooden plugs and a hammer are your friends here. Larger holes in bulkheads, ply through bolted with old cushions as filling. A temporary hatch cover with a compressor connection will tell you where the water is getting in