Crewed Charter

[kingcobra]

Hello everyone

I am a new virgin to this site so please be gentle with me. I am looking for some help / advice. I am currently considering starting a new life along with my wife. We are looking at the feasabilty of starting a luxury crewed charter operation in the Carbbean.

We are initially looking at buying a 46 to 50 foot ex charter boat and then refitting the boat with new engine, new sails etc etc. We thought that by purchasing a 5 or 6 year old charter boat, most of the depreciation will have occured already.

We will be living on the boat full time in our own cabin which is likely to be the forward section of the boat, with its own head / bathroom etc.

We would be most grateful to receive any advice from anyone who has any experience of crewed / Skipperd Charter.

We fully understand that this will not make us a fortune however the boat will be paid for and we will also have a small income from a property which we own. We plan to advertise in yachting monthly and also plan to try and hook up with some charter agents in the UK and America.

What I would like to know is:-

1. How many weeks are we likely to charter out of a typical season say 26 weeks ( November to June ) each year.

2. What will the likely maintainance costs likely to be ie, replacing sails, haul out repairs etc.

We would be very grateful to receive any advice.

Many Thanks

Kingcobra

 

[snowleopard]

[ QUOTE ]
most of the depreciation will have occured already

[/ QUOTE ]

i think you may be making a false assumption here. boats do not generally depreciate unless they are allowed to deteriorate. you'll have little luck with up-market chartering if the boat is tatty and a big bill in time and materials to bring it back to the standard people will expect.

'doing up' a cheap boat is vastly more work than most people imagine. up to 60% of the work in building a one-off boat is in cosmetic finishing and you will have most of it to do again.


as far as estimating charter income is concerned, your biggest expense will be in advertising and/or agents fees. it will take a long time to build up a client base. have you tried talking to any agents or do you hope to do your own marketing?

 

[kingcobra]

Thanks Snowleopard

I hear what you say, I think I will probably need to spend about £20,000 to £30,000 fitting out a boat, after that I think it willl just be annual maintainance / repairs etc.

As far as marketing goes I estimate that we will need to spend about 15% to 20% of turnover on aquiring clients in the early years, in some respects I am leaning more towards doing my own marketing because if we rely on charter agents there is no guarantee they will pass on any clients ?.

We are looking at 5 year old beneteau`s, which cost about £140,000 new, and we are looking at spending about £70,000 + the cost of refit say £25,000. We would expect the boat to be as good as new after the refit.

Any further help from anybody would be useful.

Thanks

Kingcobra

 

[Melody]

We run a skippered charter boat in Greece. Can't comment on Carib but we spend about £3-5K annually on keeping the boat in good shape. Sails don't last more than 3 yrs in sunny climate and you have to replace a lot of stuff much earlier if you have guests than if it was a private boat. Also, things like liferaft, fire extinguishers, lifejackets, flares etc must be checked, serviced annually.

All the official stuff also costs quite a lot. You need to find out what the regulations are for charter boats. Who inspects? How often? What safety equipment do they require you to have on board.

Your insurance may be more if you are taking charter guests.

Things in Greece have been bad on charter side for the past few years - down to about ten weeks annually. This year looks better. We run an RYA school which helps us to generate income over a longer season.

Why not go out there and speak to people who are doing it?

Cheers
Melody

 

[kingcobra]

Thanks Melody

Your reply is very useful. I was hopeful of doing between 10 & 14 weeks a year, so what you say just about fits.

Iam hoping to gain a bit from a slightly longer season in the Carib, however we will be limited by the Hurricane season. We may look to continue chartering below the Hurricane belt, maybe around Trinidad / tobago between June & November, or even further north depending on Insurers requirements ?.

Tell me how long have you been chartering ? & do you spend much on marketing ?


Look forward to hearing from you and anyone else


Many Thanks

Kingcobra

 

[John_Lana]

I am running a charter boat, and we are in Antigua at the moment. The boat I am running is bigger than you are talking about, so we are looking at different customers, but this is a slow season for everybody.
Chartering through a recognised central agent will normally cost you about 20% of the gross fee - that is quite a bite!
There is a charter boat show in Antigua, and a new one in St Martin that started this year - they are in the middle of December each year. This year there were about 130 boats at the Antigua show and about 300 brokers. Although most of the boats were much bigger than you are talking about, there were a few in the 50 to 60 foot range. If you get serious about chartering, then I would suggest a visit to one or two of the charter shows would be a worthwhile investment.
As others have pointed out, you will need to comply with the various safety requirements - that can cost a fair amount,, but is vital.
You will find it diffcult to base in one place for long - most islands will let you stay for up to 30 days at a time, but then they "encourage" you to move along. Fortunately there are plenty of islands, and the distances are small, so that is not too onerous.
On the plus side - the sailing is great and most of the time the weather is nice! We had a long spell of unseasonably wet weather, but at least the rain here is warm!!!

 

[Melody]

We started chartering in 2000, but only did a few weeks the first two years as we spent a lot of time really getting to know our area - 'secret' bays, phone numbers for the water man, best tavernas etc etc. Its that local knowledge that people pay you for, really.

We became recognised as an RYA training centre last year, and that has done a lot to increase our season. Our first course this year begins on March 14th. Woolly jumpers & fleeces I think.

I tried advertising in YM, PBO with mixed results. We are featured in YMs Charter Special in the February edition this year, but so far it hasn't resulted in any enquiries. Went to the London Boat Show last year and did some canvassing round agents, but nothing came of it. Last year was a disastrous year for the Greek charter industry though - think the Olympics put people off.

My main marketing effort is on our web sites and site promotion, building links. I use pay-per-click advertising and we are on some sites that produce a lot of enquiries and bookings. I can recommend marsbrookboating.

You have to identify who your particular customers are and then find how to contact them. What will be different about you from anyone else? Who will that appeal to? How will you let them know about you?

I'd say 90% of our bookings come to us online, with 10% from agents.

Am in the process of doing our accounts and then I may be able to give you more precise figures for last year.

Cheers

Melody

 

[kingcobra]

Thanks John & Melody for your info.

John can you tell me roughly how many weeks can a charter yacht expect to work in a normal season in the Caribbean ?.

Many Thanks

Kingcobra.

 

[Melody]

I've worked out we spent about 3500 Euro last year on marketing, but some items will last us for a few seasons.

You are about the sixth person I've come across in the last year who wants to run skippered charter in the Caribbean. If you all do it, it could be pretty competitive out there! I think its part of the exodus from the UK that seems to be popular at present.

Some words of warning.

1. We didn't make any money to live on out of chartering for the first three years. Like any new business it takes time, so you should ensure that you either have enough funds, or other ways of making a living, for the first few years.

2. Don't even think about this unless you are capable of doing your own boat repairs and maintenance (or most of it) as you certainly won't make a living if you have to pay people to look after your yacht for you.

3. Skippered charters are quite hard work, so don't think it is an easy life. It can be especially hard for your wife, who will find herself cooking and cleaning in rough seas and hot weather. Guests never consider you are 'off duty' so expect to be on call 24 hours a day when they are on board.

That's all the advice, unless you want to pay me a consultancy fee!!

Good luck

 

[tcm]

hi. I don't charter out our boat, but i do rent boats in the caribbean. I think you are hoping for to much.

I would say that, in line with another post further down, the boat you plan is very small for crewed charter. 40-50 foot uts you in direct competition with sunsail moorings etc whose boats run up to 55foot, maybe now and again at 60 foot cat. crewed only.

With these operators, people are renting a "nomral" boat and know it will be, yerknow, okay and fun. Cept there's you two as well - so it's only a 4-person boat. a 45 footer in antigua costs $3500 US over chrsistmas and the one we used hadn't moved for two months- i got it for under$3k. I could get a skipper for another $100 a day max - but lose a cabin.

Problem is you are aiming at a very very specific market - those who fancy sailing - but can't sail. And of that group, those who aren't a large group - just 4. And within that group, those who can't afford the luxury of a larger boat with airconditioning - a great divide imho. Worse of course, even casual charterers know the awkwardness of owner-charterers - its your boat so erm..would you mind not doing that? Or that as well?


Any chance you can go bigger? The antigua show is important if you plan yacht charter - where brokers who effectivley "own" their clients and inspect boats to see if they come up to scratch - good enough to recommend you to their clients and be sure that they'll come back year after year.

There is a good charter market for vagueley "classic" older sailing boats, where refit costs for a perfect finsh aren't so demanding/expensive as returning a new-style boay to "new". Of course, the safety gear has to be up to speed just the same.

I would be suprised if you get charters for more than 30% of the season - unless you have something extra, not something less - small boat, fewer cabins, no aircon, less luxury, less character than a classic ...

all imho

 

[John_Lana]

We have had just over two weeks so far, and have another week booked, and that is all we have at the moment. We may get the odd last minute one, but nothing else is booked. There is a pile of boats anchored here in Falmouth harbour at the moment - it is slow for everybody this year.
I get paid even if there are no charters /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif- why not think about running somebody elses boat, at least until you get some more experience, and make some contacts? If you can get a few repeat clients lined up, that might be the time to start with your own boat.
Only other suggestion would be to think up something different - trips for artists, or birdwatchers or even nudists. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif Do you have any other hobbies you could combine with the sailing?

Cheers, John

 

[kingcobra]

Thanks Melody

I hear what you are saying and take it all on board.

KingCobra.

 

[kingcobra]

Thanks for your comments TCM.

We are probably looking at a 50 beneteau. We have initially costed @ offering skippered Charters `all Inclusive ` for about $5,000.00 to $5,500.00 + tips per week, this is based on 4 guests.

From the research we have carried out to date this appears to be much cheaper than anything else we have seen, although we have only seen what is available from some of the bigger Charter brokers.

We thought that if we can eventually do about 10 weeks a year ( after a few years ), then we could just about make a living, although not a fortune. We will have a small income from a property as well to top up our income.

From our research it appears that Sunsail charge about what we are looking to charge for a 50 feet `Bareboat `. We are looking to offer food, drinks, water toys, fuel, water, advice etc, for not much more.

We will also offer either formal or informal sailing tuition as well, so I would have thought that what we are looking to offer looks like good value, however I may be missing something ???.

I hear what you are saying though and the comment about initially working for someone else is a good idea?.

I will look forward to receiving any further advice or information from you or any other forum members.

Also does anyone know what a couple Skipper & Chef / Hostess can earn being employed as running a Skippered Charter in the Caribbean ???.

Many Thanks

Kingcobra.

 

[John_Lana]

A couple running a boat of the size you are talking about, or a little bigger, should get at least 7,000 usd a month, with all living expenses paid. This assumes a year-round situation. Most of the yacht crew agency sites will give you an idea of "normal" wages e.g. Elite Crew
If you are chartering, you should expect to make tips as well - possibly around 1,000 usd for a week's charter for a couple.
If you do run your own boat, it is often better not to tell the clients it is your boat - as crew you will make tips, as Owners you might not!!!!

John

 

[kingcobra]

Thanks John

Thats very interesting.

Kingcobra.

 

[kesey]

kingcobra, read everything on this site:

http://www.usual-suspects-sailing.com/

The boat owner bought an ex-charter yacht, a 40 footer. The site tells of his trials and tribulations, the ups and the downs, which marketing strategies worked, which didn't. He also gives an annual breakdown of finances. His boat was not crewed - he chartered it bareboat.

Best of luck,

Adrian

 

[kingcobra]

Thanks Kesey

I will check the web site out.


Kingcobra.

 

[kingcobra]

John

Thanks for your replies on the forum I do appreciate it. Just a quick thought as I am looking at various ideas at the moment. How much experience is required to work on the larger yachts, such as the one you run.

For instance for a deckhand position, how much experience is actually required?. And also for Stewardess, how much actual sailing experience is actually required?.

If you can reply I would appreciate it.

Many Thanks

Kingcobra.

 

[John_Lana]

How much experience? The more the better obviously. Lots of the bigger boats take passage crew for the Atlantic crossing - not much pay, but a good way to get the miles.
To get a job on a commercially operated yacht, you need at least the STCW95 training certificate. It is a legal requirement now on any "Red Flag" boats. This is a week at school and covers the basics of First Aid, Fire fighting, sea survial and something called Social Responsibilities. You find info on any of the sail training establishment sites eg Freedom Yachting or Blue Water in Antibes - I imagine UKSA does it too.
It will not be easy to get a couples job as deckie/stew - not impossible, but not easy. Another way might be to try to run a smaller boat, like the size you are talking about, for Moorings or Sunsail. For that, the skipper will need the Yachtmaster Cert with a commercial endorsement - same as if you take charterers on your own boat - you will need that.
If you want to PM me I will give you my email address and then maybe I can answer more specific questions.
Cheers, John

 

[kingcobra]

John

Thanks for your reply. If possible I would like to pick your brains a bit more. I only have limited experience at the moment ( Day Skipper ). I am looking to do a lot more sailing over the next six months and I am looking at the Crewed Charter business for maybe next year or in the meantime I might look at some other ideas, like gaining some more experience on larger yachts, either via doing a passage sail or even crewing for a year or so.

I do not have the STCW95 yet, however I think that this is relatively easy to obtain?

What other sort of experience would I need in terms of sailing qualifications or other experience to secure a crew position on a large yacht ?.

I now a lot of the training organisations like the UKSA for example appear to say that you need Yachtmaster and a load of other qualifications, but is this really relevant for a Deckhand position?.

I do understand that I will need the Yachtmaster ticket to do Crewed Charter etc.

Any advice or information would be very helpful, I wil look forward to hearing from you.

If you prefer to email me direct, my email address is:- cromackassociate@aol.com

Many Thanks

Kingcobra