Crew suffered crushed leg in marina accident

[Huff]

He screwed up, fair enough. Are they still married ? Has he still got the yacht? Bad enough getting out the entrance in a blow let alone off the pontoon.
Anchor on the bow ,full speed ahead Mr Barker, full speed ahead.

 

[capnsensible]

The Oz chap wasn't on a leisure vessel, it was commercial.

Double bubble trouble!

Feel free, chaps to argue the details as long as you like...

Fact is, Solas exists and if you cock up, it is a stick you 'may' be beaten with.

Its all there, with, IRPCS (that some posters think doesn't apply to them), MARPOL, recreational craft directives, local harbour rules, civil law, statute law, admiralty law, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

Go careful out there.......

 

[l'escargot]

Double bubble trouble!

Feel free, chaps to argue the details as long as you like...

Fact is, Solas exists and if you cock up, it is a stick you 'may' be beaten with.

Its all there, with, IRPCS (that some posters think doesn't apply to them), MARPOL, recreational craft directives, local harbour rules, civil law, statute law, admiralty law, etc, etc, ad nauseum.

Go careful out there.......

It is all there, perhaps somewhat differently than you are trying to represent though. I would rather apply them correctly than as interpreted or misrepresented by people on here.

 

[Tranona]

Fact is, Solas exists and if you cock up, it is a stick you 'may' be beaten with.

But, from the report it was not used as a "stick to beat him with" - despite the death. Suggests the so called lack of plan was not important.

Do you know of any documented examples of leisure (or indeed charter) skippers who have been successfully prosecuted for failing to produce a written passage plan?

Not trying to catch you out, just curious.

 

[capnsensible]

But, from the report it was not used as a "stick to beat him with" - despite the death. Suggests the so called lack of plan was not important.

Do you know of any documented examples of leisure (or indeed charter) skippers who have been successfully prosecuted for failing to produce a written passage plan?

Not trying to catch you out, just curious.

Absolutely no idea. If I was going to look into it though, I would start with the MCA website and the chapter of prosecutions.

Lescagot, I simply point out that there is a lot of legislation around. Should things go wrong and some 'agency' decides to go after you, there are a lot of ways to make your life difficult. I am sure Marine Insurers are already well up to speed......

 

[l'escargot]

Absolutely no idea. If I was going to look into it though, I would start with the MCA website and the chapter of prosecutions.

Lescagot, I simply point out that there is a lot of legislation around. Should things go wrong and some 'agency' decides to go after you, there are a lot of ways to make your life difficult. I am sure Marine Insurers are already well up to speed......

And what do you base that certainty on?

 

[capnsensible]

And what do you base that certainty on?

It is an insurers job to not pay for anything unnecessary........

 

[Tranona]

Absolutely no idea. If I was going to look into it though, I would start with the MCA website and the chapter of prosecutions.

Just one in 2012. Ocean Youth Trust Northern Ireland. Grounding and loss of yacht. Prosecution under Section 100 of the MSA which is the catchall section for unsafe operation. Lack of plan was part of failing to follow owner's procedures (and resulting in a grounding). Owner fined £250 (max possible £50000!) skipper lost his RYA ticket.

Point is, the SOLAS requirement is largely irrelevant as there is already adequate legislation in place, and what is considered "appropriate" depends on the facts of the case. The point is made by the RYA when giving advice as to how one should comply with the requirement. It would be a court that would decide.

 

[l'escargot]

It is an insurers job to not pay for anything unnecessary........

The hypothetical and vague "the insurers would use it as an excuse not to pay out" catch all...

 

[Tranona]

The hypothetical and vague "the insurers would use it as an excuse not to pay out" catch all...

Insurers would have to make it a condition that a plan was in place before the voyage. The SOLAS requirement is not in law as an offence, in the same way that requiring you to keep a VAT receipt is not a legal requirement.

The offences are respectively unsafe operation and failing to account correctly for VAT. Lack of a plan could be evidence of the former and lack of receipt could be evidence of the latter, but neither are offences in themselves. So, no danger of receiving a "ticket" just because you cannot produce a written plan

 

[BruceDanforth]

My decks are within 2 or 3 inches of pontoon height. I've noticed quite elderly people taking huge leaps off modern awb.

AND NEVER jump off of a boat onto a pontoon

 

[sailorman]

My decks are within 2 or 3 inches of pontoon height. I've noticed quite elderly people taking huge leaps off modern awb.

a couple of months ago a lady it it & went swimming due to wet slippery pontoon

 

[l'escargot]

Insurers would have to make it a condition that a plan was in place before the voyage. The SOLAS requirement is not in law as an offence, in the same way that requiring you to keep a VAT receipt is not a legal requirement.

The offences are respectively unsafe operation and failing to account correctly for VAT. Lack of a plan could be evidence of the former and lack of receipt could be evidence of the latter, but neither are offences in themselves. So, no danger of receiving a "ticket" just because you cannot produce a written plan

Exactly. There is no requirement for a leisure sailor to provide a written plan to the courts, insurer or indeed, anyone else...

 

[capnsensible]

Exactly. There is no requirement for a leisure sailor to provide a written plan to the courts, insurer or indeed, anyone else...

Good luck.

 

[Tranona]

Good luck.

That is just scaremongering - unless you can point us towards a law or documented cases where the lack of a written plan has caused specific problems for an individual skipper, or resulted in an insurance claim being refused.

The SOLAS requirement is deliberately non specific with no compulsory definition of what a plan should contain, nor its form.

 

[ProDave]

So she was sitting on the side of the boat ready to get off? So presumable she was sitting on the pontoon side of the boat?

All of a sudden a gust of wind blew them into the boat next door. Oh she wasn't on the pontoon side after all, but the wrong side? Or was she planning to get off onto the next door boat? So exactly what was she going to do with tthose lines on the wrong side?

She then gave the passer by the lines she was holding and they pulled the boat away from the other one. So they must have pulled it the other way then.

All sounds a bit confusing to me and nobody to blame but herself. Lucky she was a pleasure boater not on a commercial boat, otherwise some poor employer would be getting the blame for her lack of care.

 

[sailorman]

So she was sitting on the side of the boat ready to get off? So presumable she was sitting on the pontoon side of the boat?

All of a sudden a gust of wind blew them into the boat next door. Oh she wasn't on the pontoon side after all, but the wrong side? Or was she planning to get off onto the next door boat? So exactly what was she going to do with tthose lines on the wrong side?

She then gave the passer by the lines she was holding and they pulled the boat away from the other one. So they must have pulled it the other way then.

All sounds a bit confusing to me and nobody to blame but herself. Lucky she was a pleasure boater not on a commercial boat, otherwise some poor employer would be getting the blame for her lack of care.

It will all be ok once she get "qualified"

 

[Croak]

So she was sitting on the side of the boat ready to get off? So presumable she was sitting on the pontoon side of the boat?

All of a sudden a gust of wind blew them into the boat next door. Oh she wasn't on the pontoon side after all, but the wrong side? Or was she planning to get off onto the next door boat? So exactly what was she going to do with tthose lines on the wrong side?

She then gave the passer by the lines she was holding and they pulled the boat away from the other one. So they must have pulled it the other way then.

All sounds a bit confusing to me and nobody to blame but herself. Lucky she was a pleasure boater not on a commercial boat, otherwise some poor

employer would be getting the blame for her lack of care.

Why do you think she was on the wrong side? they were just going past a boat getting to the pontoon.

 

[Mrnotming]

Are routes stored ECDIS or ECS fashion in a non- commercial craft's computer a passage plan?
Or only if in tidless waters?
Assuming weather forecast has been accessed by 3G /4G or other means of accessing the required information?
Do we have to have some form of tick off list like an Airline pilot?
Most areas I now cruise the routes are much to same as in previous voyages,as I cruise the same area year after year by choice.
What does the forum think?

 

[jerrytug]

Are routes stored ECDIS or ECS fashion in a non- commercial craft's computer a passage plan?
Or only if in tidless waters?
Assuming weather forecast has been accessed by 3G /4G or other means of accessing the required information?
Do we have to have some form of tick off list like an Airline pilot?
Most areas I now cruise the routes are much to same as in previous voyages,as I cruise the same area year after year by choice.
What does the forum think?

If you are serious...
A list of waypoints in a chart plotter is definitely not a passage plan although it might be part of one.
3g is not a primary source of weather forecasts, compared to radio and navtex, although it's very convenient sometimes.
Everyone has lists, in the mind,or written in huge letters on the bulkhead, depending on memory etc. Not really like an airline pilot I would guess, but better than 'spectacles, testicles,wallet and watch'. More like a glider pilot.
Cruising familiar areas, even if you work out the tides in your head, you have worked them out, therefore by definition you have 'planned' your trip.
Top of the morning Jerry