Creating an anchor locker...

[rbcoomer]

Hi,

As some of you will be aware, I'm restoring a late 70's Fletcher Arrowbolt GTS (21'6"). The vessel currently has no form of anchor locker, but as I've stripped back to bare hull I have a blank canvas and there is room. Unlike later variations, the screen is also continuous with no opening centre section and no walk around space to get onto foredeck - thus the only options are to climb over the screen or via the cuddy through the hatch. The cuddy is really just a kids space or sleeping 'tent' as there isn't enough headroom for an adult to sit comfortably, so climbing through if running solo to deploy/recover anchor doesn't seem ideal!

To make life much easier, especially when single handed, I'd like to fit a windlass and a bow roller and wire back to the helm for anchoring. I think I need a 'horizontal' windlass due to the 'pointedness' (for lack of a better term!) of the bow and lack of depth...

I've no idea what power is required however for a 6M boat? The deepest we are likely to anchor would be 30M and that would be the exception rather than rule, so probably 10M chain (8mm?) and 40M of warp needs to fit in the locker. I think this is easily do-able as although the highest point would only be around 40cm, I have a reasonable fore-aft length to work with. (I'll measure later and get some pictures when it dries up a bit!)

Budget is fairly constrained, but I've seen 800W units for around the £600 mark new (e.g. Quick: http://www.quicknauticalequipment.com/?lng=en&cs1=01&ms1=2&ms2=1&ctm=205 ) and I'm also not averse to buying second hand either. Something with an automatic free-fall seems like a good idea as quick deployment in the event of mechanical issues etc without having to climb to the bow would be a big plus! Although I'm not quite ready for the windlass yet, I need to cut and form the anchor locker in the next couple of months, so any thoughts, experiences or advice gratefully received!

Cheers,

Robin

 

[scottie]

Do you really want an anchor and chain in the bow of this type of boat?
What sort of stay do you envision whilst at anchor and how often would you use it
Are you thinking of lunch stops /fishing or leaving overnight?
If the former then you should be able to handle it better from middle of the boat and perhaps using an anchor claw to keep the boat head to.
Maybe better to use the boat for a season and keep this project in mind for next winter!

PS if you do fit an anchor you will still have to tie it down whilst travelling at any speed or it may decide to try its chances as a wrecking axe

 

[Robg71]

Hi Robin
I beleive auto freefall, is also a clutch nut, that needs undoing. So you may have to climb to the bow anyway. Its like that on my lofrans unit anyway, others may differ of course...

 

[rbcoomer]

Do you really want an anchor and chain in the bow of this type of boat?
What sort of stay do you envision whilst at anchor and how often would you use it
Are you thinking of lunch stops /fishing or leaving overnight?
If the former then you should be able to handle it better from middle of the boat and perhaps using an anchor claw to keep the boat head to.
Maybe better to use the boat for a season and keep this project in mind for next winter!

PS if you do fit an anchor you will still have to tie it down whilst travelling at any speed or it may decide to try its chances as a wrecking axe

Thanks for the reply, a mix I think in terms of stays but mostly inshore lunch/rest stops. We don't plan to use her much for raw speed, more of a compact coastal cruiser that will be trailer launched. I'm adding a radar arch and diesel heater so that we can use all year round. There are many days we'd have gone out with the 14', but for the cold and exposed nature of open boats! This is a longer term project and the reason for looking at now is the hull is largely bare, having just installed new stringers & transom. The boat will also require repainting as there is quite extensive gel coat missing, so creating the the locker, hatch etc needs to be done before I spray!

We handle the current boats with anchor from amidships or standing on the bow and it's far from ideal TBH. I'll be adding side rails to the Arrowbolt bow, so chances of slipping off will be lessened but the biggest hassles of the 14' & 16' is climbing over the screen - especially when there's a bit of a swell!

Whilst I don't want to add unnecessary weight, the boat currently has a 5.0 220hp V8 and depending on finances next year when she'll likely be ready for engine, I'm contemplating a 5.7 and 4 barrel carb. The extra weight should be offset by an extra 30-40hp. We're not looking for a race boat however, so if I go down the road of a new base engine, I'll probably try with the existing 2 barrel carb first.

Point taken on the anchor securing - was looking to use a roller with securing pin to lock in, but a but of additional tying down is a good idea!

 

[rbcoomer]

Hi Robin
I beleive auto freefall, is also a clutch nut, that needs undoing. So you may have to climb to the bow anyway. Its like that on my lofrans unit anyway, others may differ of course...

Thanks Rob, I'm hoping to avoid that if I can for obvious reasons. I get the impression that Quick offer both?

Quick Windlasses characteristics:

Manual Free-Fall:
a mechanism that releases the gypsy clutch, like this offering unlimited down speed of the anchor.
These windlasses are designed for fast anchoring in deep water or for fishing, where it is important to anchor on a certain spot.

Automatic Free-Fall:
mechanism that releases the clutch of the gypsy for the Free-Fall of the chain, which is controlled by an
electrical command. This system is installed on the Genius FF series.

The automatic is what I'd be after - I'm guessing a solenoid releases the clutch?

What power is yours? Given it's twice the size boat, I should get away with about half the wattage!

This one's in the US, but would something like this suffice I wonder? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Quick-Genius-600-1-4-7mm-Complete-Windlass-Kit-/230960229313

 

[rbcoomer]

Found a few pictures to help illustrate:

External view

Inside - underside of bow etc taken from forward edge of cuddy - i.e. previously 'dead space'.

Wider view - the V frame is what remains of the forward wall of the cuddy (a section of cloth covered ply attached) and is about where I envisage an anchor locker bulkhead. Taken after removal of some cuddy floor, buoyancy foam (waterlogged) and prior to glassing in of new stringers etc (now done).

 

[Robg71]

Hmmm, not spotted those before Robin.
I may have to have another look. Ive got the quick catalogue here too.
I dont know what size mine is. Iirc 60amp breaker, but i could be wrong. I do know that it is literally, undo the clutch cone nut for freefall....

I thought of you yesterday... Fletcher 19ft arrowbolt with 200mariner for sale. 3k ono
Another for your collection.... Actually looks very nice...

 

[rbcoomer]

Hmmm, not spotted those before Robin.
I may have to have another look. Ive got the quick catalogue here too.
I dont know what size mine is. Iirc 60amp breaker, but i could be wrong. I do know that it is literally, undo the clutch cone nut for freefall....

I thought of you yesterday... Fletcher 19ft arrowbolt with 200mariner for sale. 3k ono
Another for your collection.... Actually looks very nice...

Ha, ha! I still keep looking too - must be a disease this boat bug, but with 3 on the drive I'm very definitely out of space now! :ambivalence: My son has decided he wants a project car to do up too, so will have to make some space... He's only 10, but certainly a 'chip off of the old block' - it was electronics and domestic appliances for me at that age, nice little earner too

Do you know if the quick units are any good or should I be looking at something different? A few places seem to sell them and I've always viewed Italian electronics quite favourably...

 

[Robg71]

Hahahahahahha..... Italian electronics......
You have never had a Ducati or Guzzi.....

They are nice looking bits of kit. I would expect no trouble, as theres nothing exactly cutting edge about a winch.... Probably made in taiwan anyway.... So... Yeah, its excellent stuff

 

[rbcoomer]

Hahahahahahha..... Italian electronics......
You have never had a Ducati or Guzzi.....

They are nice looking bits of kit. I would expect no trouble, as theres nothing exactly cutting edge about a winch.... Probably made in taiwan anyway.... So... Yeah, its excellent stuff

Never done the bike thing, but had a couple of Italian vehicles - no issues with electrics that I recall, just the bodywork fell off or rotted! :disgust:

 

[longjohnsilver]

Robin, realistically will you ever anchor in 30m? I frequently anchor and the absolute deepest ever was about 15m in Scilly, preferred depth about 6 - 10m. I'd suggest that 5m of chain with a further 40m of anchorplait should be more than enough, and furthermore no real need for a windlass, a nice to have but hardly essential. I'd want to spend my cash on other things.

I guess the main issue is where do you stands to drop/haul in the anchor, cos most certainly you wouldn't want to be doing that stood on your bows. The obvious place is the cockpit, with maybe one or more rollers along the side deck to the bows. I will be interested to see what you decide to do.

 

[rbcoomer]

Robin, realistically will you ever anchor in 30m? I frequently anchor and the absolute deepest ever was about 15m in Scilly, preferred depth about 6 - 10m. I'd suggest that 5m of chain with a further 40m of anchorplait should be more than enough, and furthermore no real need for a windlass, a nice to have but hardly essential. I'd want to spend my cash on other things.

I guess the main issue is where do you stands to drop/haul in the anchor, cos most certainly you wouldn't want to be doing that stood on your bows. The obvious place is the cockpit, with maybe one or more rollers along the side deck to the bows. I will be interested to see what you decide to do.

Hi John, probably not if I'm honest and it was a worst case scenario! I looked at the areas we're likely to visit and checked the deepest as 'worst case' - would agree that <15M is more likely 95% of the time. I almost certainly wouldn't choose to anchor in 30M, but there are a few sections of coastline not far away where it rapidly drops off to 25~30M and I was thinking more of emergencies to avoid drifting. Channel Islands and Isles of Scilly are both trips I'd like to build up to eventually, but planning to anchor mid channel in 60M seemed a bit extreme - although I always have a couple of 20M ropes so not impossible!

I did wonder about pulling manually back to the helm, but a) there isn't really any room there and b) I got thinking about the 5-10M of chain dragging along the deck on the last bit - and rapidly went off that idea! I don't mind standing on the bow to haul in etc, but the getting to & fro is more of an issue, especially if we're out in the winter with covers up! If we anchor for any length of time in the 14', I usually lob over the side and then climb over the screen and tie off on the bow towing eye. Short stops I worry less where the attachment point is, but concern is if we had to drop the hook for mechanical issues in less than ideal conditions then a) I wouldn't really want to be climbing over the screen (higher on the Arrowbolt too) and b) I'd want the bows into the current/waves. The hull isn't a good profile to be broadsided and it has a lower freeboard than never versions... :nonchalance:

I have all the materials I'd need to construct the locker and now would be the time to do it whilst the hull is bare and I'm rebuilding the cuddy. Even if I don't fit a windlass, I'd really like to create the locker and fit a bow roller. In terms of cost, I have a max 'budget' of £1000 to cover the windlass, cables, switches, bow roller, chain, anchor, hinges for locker, bow rails etc. I reckon if I can source a windlass for £500 or less then it's worth doing, but much more and it'll probably be manual with a bit of budget saved for other overspends elsewhere in the project!

I'll certainly post updates as I go on the project thread.

Best regards,

Robin

 

[Robg71]

http://www.ybw.com/forums/showthread.php?393704-Lofrans-or-Lewmar

They discuss quick in here....
Maybe worth a read. Lofrans under new management....

 

[Dill et Bound]

Robin
I think longjohn has a good point.
Here in Guernsey we have loads of deep water.
Pulling up an anchor on a Fletcher like yours is much easier from the cockpit.
You don t need to have much chain, The boat is relatively light and little windage.
My suggestion, for what is worth is to buy a small anchor of your choice.
6 to 10m of 7mm chain,
50 m of 12mm braided rope.
Splice them together.
That will be plenty for what you need.
You can always tie on more rope.

As to deploying it.
If you bolt a D ring in front of your navlight together with suitable backer.
2 cleats 1 each side of the windscreen just in front of it. Again with suitable backers.
1 Raggie type pulley with swivel to take some 8 mm rope.
1 length of rope long enough to go from the cleat through the Raggie type pulley and back to the other cleat plus twice.
Tie securely 2 snap shackles to the rope. Just past the cleat each side. leaving you a long end Port and Starboard.

When you want to anchor..

Lower away till you get to rope, snap on shackle, pull to bow using rope on opposite side. to the side you deployed it on, Cleat it off, and let out more anchor rope to suit.

To retrieve. Start your engine and use it to keep boat pointing head to tide or wind or both.
Pull shackle back to cockpit using long end of rope, unsnap shackle and pull up anchor.

You will have no extra weight up front. And no loss of accommodation storage.

You can use the same system for deploying a bow mooring rope, or tow rope.

When not in use you will have 2 safety lines running each side of the foredeck, Just in case you slip, if you do go up there.

Always have the end of the anchor rope tied to something, but it can just be stored in a bucket or something anywhere on the boat.

This method does work really well, and my brother in law used it on his Fletcher Faro, after he once fell off holding onto the anchor...He was just too big for that foredeck.

You may need a small SS plate to stop the block chafing the deck. and maybe the rope on the fendering.

Its also very cheap..

Following the progress, Looking really good.. Ian

 

[longjohnsilver]

Robin, I'd say standing on the foredeck pulling up an anchor is potentially dangerous unless you plan on installing railings of at least knee height. It would take just one unexpected swell or wash and over you go! Also with regards to chain scraping along your side deck, why not have it routed through some plastic trunking? Anyway, all much safer done from the cockpit. And I'd definitely use anchorplait, much easier to handle than any other type of rope.

 

[Spi D]

I used to have a Quick windlass on a 20 foot cuddy. It was factory fitted so integrated in original design, but the weight of anchor + 30 m of chain at the very forward tip of a planing boat certainly didn't do anything good to speed or trim. On the trailer it was pretty heavy on the tow bar, too. Chain weight was 24 kg and anchor was 10 kg, winch + bow roller an estimated 12 kg so totalling to 46 kg.

Neatly integrated but a pig to get out when the capstan got stuck :nonchalance:. Parts were available as main components only so I had to dismantle it and fix/find parts elsewhere. The culprit was old grease that had turned almost solid in the sealed gearbox. Solution was a complete clean out, new bearings and seals and then filling with semi-fluid grease (for trucks' automatic chassis lube systems etc.). Worked brilliantly ever after.

Another aspect of your plan is a radical change of the Fletcher's original design and look. To me that alone would be a show stopper.

 

[rbcoomer]

Thanks all - some very useful food for thought there!

Rob - interesting link, I'll have another look at Lewmar too...

Ian/John - I link the concept, but less sure about all rope & tackle or plastic tube hanging on the bow I did wonder about a means to do similar earlier on, but as the bow curves I think I'd need at least 2 fairleads per side to stop the rope rubbing the deck? I did have a brainwave of running in a duct inside the cuddy, but then realised that wasn't going to work unless anchor was permanently at the bow! That in turn started me looking at a windlass...

I'm looking to add two stainless rails for safety so I can clip on when on the bow - along the lines of: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/230399935954?_trksid=p2055119.m1438.l2649&ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT Not so keen on the higher rails mainly due to change in original appearance (see below)

SpiD - that picture's almost exactly what I wanted to achieve! I take the point about originality and I am trying to strike a balance between this and modernisation/practicality/functionality. I'm trying not to change the lines or main structure although I'm aware people often do. Anchor lockers are fitted to many later Fletchers and the ZS of the same era had the radar arch - similarly the bow rails. The only visible bit of the anchor would be the anchor itself and the bow roller. This one also had the 'camper' hood and frame, but the frame was detached and a few bits missing - it was also fairly flimsy. My intention is to use the arch as the base for the canvas covers too by welding pop studs to this with just one forward hoop of frame which will be removable. (The arch is also removable)

The issue of weight is a fair point and I will have added a fair bit with diesel heater, radar arch, electronics etc! That said, all the foam and timber was waterlogged under the GRP, so it'll probably still be lighter overall :encouragement: I'll look again at bow weight, but perhaps less chain is better... The bow is very much unused space, whereas the stern storage and cabin are limited. We tend to over clutter anyway with dry clothes, food, water etc and then of course all the boat stuff like ropes, fenders, throw line, flares, tools etc etc. Seems that I still need a bigger boat!

 

[longjohnsilver]

Robin, those rails will be useful when kneeling, but as for clipping on to them, what will that achieve? If the boat rolls and you go in, clipped on, then you're stuck there in the water, and even if you can unclip from the l/j, believe me, your hands will soon lose all their feeling in cold water and you'll end up fumbling and going nowhere, whereas you really want to be swimming to your ladder.

How about creating another hatch forard which you can then stand up through and do your bow work without having to balance on the deck? The sides of the hatch will keep you steady, and an added benefit is more light and ventilation when you need it. But most importantly you'll be absolutely safe when hauling in your anchor or setting a bowline before coming alongside.

 

[landlockedpirate]

I love what you are doing with the Fletcher, but I'm with Longjohnsilver on this.

We had Fletchers all the way through my childhood, and even as a young fit and very agile child, standing on the bow was impossible without falling in.They just dont have the volume in the bow and polished wet gelcoat is pretty slippy, the moment you walk on there you basically create a nice waterslide

I had a 19GTS a few years ago and even with the high bow rails and a walk through windscreen, the bow was a rally dodgy place to be. The only way I could get on there was on hands and knees.

The cost of a windlass seems disproportionate to the value of the refurb, and you will still need to get forward to release/lock the anchor. On the Fletchers we had as a kid we rigged the anchor to the bow eye with a trip line back to the cockpit, the anchor,chain and warp were then stored in a container under the stern. Its cheap, effective and a lot safer than wandering around on the bow.

The hatch idea would work as well, its how we handled the anchor and forward lines on an Aquador 23HT, but I still think the windless is overkill for a boat of this size.

 

[Dill et Bound]

I think you are right in some ways, updating with new tech is great.
Also keeping the look is key.
I have kept my Sealine 255 to a factory finish, as I want it to look like a 25 year old boat, but it has to work.
If you put a locker up there you also have the problem of keeping it drained, more weight if it fills up.

I love Fletchers they were the boat of choice for us here in the 70s
They were Cheap.
Lightly built but strong enough. Meaning you could push them on with less HP
They looked really good when compared to other sports boats, and still do..

Trouble comes I think when pushed on for a few years they break. Yours was!
I have probably repaired 6 transoms by cutting out the well, strengthening and refitting, due to stress fractures.
And also stripped out floors to replace the wood where seats have parted company.

I think what you have done is brilliant.
The quality of the materials,
The thought process, and plan, but, and its a biggie.

The weight
If you make it too heavy you will loose performance and too much stiffening will make it fracture elsewhere.

Ok anchor retrieval is a pain,In more modern small sports boats they may well have given it more thought, but have they really come up with a good solution.
They have compromised.
As an example.

The best self launch retrieve on a small sports cruiser is probably the Sealine 230, but they had to sdd 2ft of overhang to a 218 hull to do it.
And the compromise on deck layout was significant, plus the cost of keeping it in a marina.

I am sure that whatever you choose to do it will be to a high standard,
The results so far look great. Best wishes. Ian