Courtesy Flag Etiquette

[johnabbott893]

So there I am approaching some port in a foreign land that I had not planned to visit. Wishing to be polite and, more importantly, not wanting to antagonise the officials, I ask the crew nicely if she would mind getting the cloth paints out to rustle up a courtesy flag.

"Do you want the national flag or civil ensign?" is the usual question.

"Whichever is easier to make will suffice until we work out what the officials want." is the usual reply.

It might be easier if the port officials respected the tradition of flying the courtesy flag only after the Q flag is struck. But some, and always the officious ones, seem offended if the courtesy is missing from the start.

So which is it where you are? National flag or civil ensign?

 

[KellysEye]

I've never heard of a civil ensign, what is it?

 

[johnalison]

It seems that courtesy ensigns are going the way that passports went - once purely optional and intended to facilitate travel but now compulsory.

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Well, I don't know about the etiquette when going abroad, but I've just ordered a Hong Kong courtesy flag, because my wife-to-be is a citizen of Hong Kong! It seems like a nice idea.

 

[EdWingfield]

So there I am approaching some port in a foreign land that I had not planned to visit. Wishing to be polite and, more importantly, not wanting to antagonise the officials, I ask the crew nicely if she would mind getting the cloth paints out to rustle up a courtesy flag.

Worry less about flags and get on the radio to the port and explain your situation. They'll be helpful, they'll inform other agencies as necessary.

 

[johnabbott893]

I've never heard of a civil ensign, what is it?

Its what your supposed to use as a Courtesy Flag as opposed to the national flag or ensign flown by a man-o-war. Presumably it is 'Civil' rather than 'Military'. And I don't really care. I only fly the things to stop the natives from getting restless. To complicate matters, the Red Ensign was originally flown by the Royal Navy but has now become the Civil Ensign. How that change took place I have no idea either.

So now that is all clear, why do we get miffed when froggie turns up in the marina supporting the Union Flag rather than the Red Ensign? How should he know the preferences of our border guards?

 

[johnabbott893]

Worry less about flags and get on the radio to the port and explain your situation. They'll be helpful, they'll inform other agencies as necessary.

Ah yes! Foreign languages. That's a challenge. Still, on the VHF I can usually get by with English, a phrase book and lots of gesticulation.

 

[DJE]

So now that is all clear, why do we get miffed when froggie turns up in the marina supporting the Union Flag rather than the Red Ensign? How should he know the preferences of our border guards?

There was a Spanish destroyer in Portsmouth a couple of weeks ago flying the Union Flag as a courtesy! I bet that ruffled a few feathers in a few wardrooms.

 

[Litotes]

There was a Spanish destroyer in Portsmouth a couple of weeks ago flying the Union Flag as a courtesy! I bet that ruffled a few feathers in a few wardrooms.

I bet it didn't.

why do we get miffed?

Interesting phenomenon. Pretty much every time someone makes a statement about "we" (do this, feel that, think the other) I'm tempted to enquire if they have a mouse in their pocket, because, ninety nine times out of a hundred I don't and neither do I know anyone that does.

 

[RestlessL]

There was a Spanish destroyer in Portsmouth a couple of weeks ago flying the Union Flag as a courtesy! I bet that ruffled a few feathers in a few wardrooms.

It is common practice for warships visiting Portsmouth to fly the Union Flag. In my experience US ships always do, as did the Indian ships visiting a few months ago.

The correct drill (per QRRN) is for warships not to fly courtesy flags as this is considered to be a merchant navy custom. However, exceptions are made where a lack of courtesy could spoil a good-will visit.

 

[Cantata]

It seems that courtesy ensigns are going the way that passports went - once purely optional and intended to facilitate travel but now compulsory.

I've seen a new use for it - big shiny Jeanneau based in Chatham Marina flew the tricolour for weeks after returning from France, despite the owner being seen on board numerous times. We all deduced that he was keen for us all to know he'd been across the Channel (or perhaps he hadn't!).

 

[25931]

Its what your supposed to use as a Courtesy Flag as opposed to the national flag or ensign flown by a man-o-war. Presumably it is 'Civil' rather than 'Military'. And I don't really care. I only fly the things to stop the natives from getting restless. To complicate matters, the Red Ensign was originally flown by the Royal Navy but has now become the Civil Ensign. How that change took place I have no idea either.

So now that is all clear, why do we get miffed when froggie turns up in the marina supporting the Union Flag rather than the Red Ensign? How should he know the preferences of our border guards?

I don't think that the red was flown (worn) by the Royal Navy.In the days before the navy became officially royal there were three squadrons-red, white & blue & the three were distributed afterwards.
Jim

 

[tcm]

Sheesh, i have more to worry bout than coutesy flags. Much more of a problem flying the wrong one than none at all.

 

[TamarMike]

I've seen a new use for it - big shiny Jeanneau based in Chatham Marina flew the tricolour for weeks after returning from France, despite the owner being seen on board numerous times. We all deduced that he was keen for us all to know he'd been across the Channel (or perhaps he hadn't!).

I believe he was showing off that he had just been engaged in pair trawling (with another Jeanneau?)

 

[bateau57]

Courtesy Flags in Turkey

You best get you flag etiquette correct in Turkey as they take a very dim view of a tatty Turkish courtesy flag. In fact, they do flag inspections in Finike, fining those seen to be showing disrespect. Another point you best be careful buying a courtesy flag in Greece for your journey to Turkey as it is consider a joke by the Greeks to sell flags with the moon on the Turkish flag point in reverse (disfigured). The Turks DONOT see the funny side of this joke. Not sure what will happen to you if you burn the flag and I do not want to find out either. Be careful with flags in Turkey.

 

[mikehibb]

Bought a new Turkish courtesy flag earlier this season.
It was just starting to go at the edges when we left a few weeks ago, so will buy another new one (or three) next trip (next week)
Guys in the marina recommend no flag rather than really tatty one.
The rediculous thing is that the Turkish courtesy flags are cheap as chips about £1.50 each, but do not last more than a few months. I would prefer to pay a few quid more for a decent one.

 

[ReneJK]

please forgive me my ignorence....

.. being Dutch .. and a Mobo owner registered in Holland on top of that , using the boat to cross the channel , or down to belgium , france .. and taking it to Croatia

What is , according to the forumites here, the correct way to fly flags ?

When in Croatia on 3 week vacation I have a Croatian flag on top . and the Dutch flag below that , when going to Belgium I have the Belgium flag on top en Dutch below that.. in France .. etc etc

What (and how / where) am I expected to fly when in UK ? , Red ensign on top and dutch below ?, or something else ?

Rgds
-Rene

 

[Lakesailor]

It's about time that the whole charade was knocked on the head.

What a loads of absolute cobblers.

 

[BelleSerene]

.. being Dutch ..

When in Croatia on 3 week vacation I have a Croatian flag on top . and the Dutch flag below that , when going to Belgium I have the Belgium flag on top en Dutch below that.. in France .. etc etc

What (and how / where) am I expected to fly when in UK ? , Red ensign on top and dutch below ?, or something else ?

Rgds
-Rene

I hope I misunderstand you.

Your boat is Dutch. So you will fly (it will 'wear') the Dutch ensign from the stern. Period. Don't confuse this immutable and mandatory badge of your own (boat's) nationality with any other flags you may fly on your boat.

When in another country, you may/should fly its national (martime) flag from a higher point on your boat (harder to say where on a mobo than on a yacht) as a mark of courtesy to your host nation. But don't confuse this with your own ensign. You don't just fly your own national flag 'below' a courtesy flag; you fly it from the stern. It means a totally different thing.

Perhaps the French have something after all, by policing the wearing of national ensigns whilst the British authorities are lax about it. At least if people get fined for misdeclaring their nationality they don't get so confused about it.

I'm sure I have misunderstood what you mean!

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

I bet it didn't.

So true!

It's about time that the whole charade was knocked on the head."

Agree what a complete waste of time and effort. About the only point seems to be to impress the chandler when you ask for somewhere exotic which 99pc of us don't do.

why do we get miffed?

Only a tiny minority do and they're the ones that would easily find something else to get upset about if that excuse went.