Costa Concordia (Titanic 2012)

[toad_oftoadhall]

Well, it doesn't just sound like the evacuation is still ongoing.
The coast guard officer specifically confirmed that to the ship captain

The only mention I heard of people still on the ship was people coming down a ladder.

To be honest the CG sounded pretty unprofessional to me. Obviously he will have been under immense pressure as well.

Then again, I understand what nigel1 said, and his point might well apply also to this case, but that's a different kettle of fish.

I agree. Nige's point is part of a different debate. I think we're talking about what the Captain *should* have done. If he didn't, then there may be understandable reason's why he did the wrong thing and Nige's insight seems a very likely explanation.

 

[Kukri]

This story is just one unbelievable thing after another....

And possibly the most unbelievable is that despite a total screw up of a captain who delayed evacuation... despite the ship turning on her side... despite no lifeboat drill.... It looks like there will be less than 30 people dead out of over 4000 on board.

In reality its almost unbelievable that so few people were killed.

(This is not meant to diminish the losses... just to put it in perspective.)

Yes, it most certainly is, and it says a lot for two groups of people who were not on board as well - Carnival's design team, here in London, and Costa's training staff and the training centres that they use.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

And possibly the most unbelievable is that despite a total screw up of a captain who delayed evacuation... despite the ship turning on her side... despite no lifeboat drill.... It looks like there will be less than 30 people dead out of over 4000 on board.
In reality its almost unbelievable that so few people were killed.

Agree. I've always taken it for granted that if a cruise ship (or large ferry) sank the mainly elderly passengers would never be able to get out and would die by the hundred.

Sounds like a huge portion of the crew deserve medals and I can't wait to hear some of the rescue stories when they emerge.

 

[MapisM]

To be honest the CG sounded pretty unprofessional to me.

Why? Remember, it was a one to one phone call, not a VHF transmission or something - even if eventually it was disclosed (btw I'm not sure by who, but that's yet again another matter).

 

[Tidewaiter2]

I think that's makes the case for the exact opposite doesn't it?

No, you chopped the quote off my post, Toad- The Capt should have been directing the evac, on board, applying CRM, and, if need be, doing the search with them, not leaving it to his braver subordinate(s) to do their best unsupported and without back up.

The stories coming out of the herculean efforts of the boat deck muster station crew of all depts to get lb's away despite the rapid list-only two not deployed speaks volumes of their calibre, and the 40+min delay before formal as opposed to 'mutinious' Abandon Ship' to the calibre of the Capt, and possibly others on the bridge team in that crisis.

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

Why?

Listen to him. A 4 minute hysterical rant at the survivor of a ship wreck.

He claimed there were multiple deaths then it turned out there was only one. He seemed far more interested in humiliating the Captain than establishing anything constructive.

Also, as I say, I'm really not convinced that it's a good idea to send someone *up* a ladder that people are escaping down.

Also it was clear the Captain was unwilling to go back aboard. If the CG needed a ship's crewmember on board for any reason he should have asked for another officer to go on board in place of the Captain once it was clear the Captain wan't up for it. Twisting the Captain's arm was just wasting time. In fact I suspect there was no need for the Captain to go back aboard - that demand was to humilate him, not because the rescue required him on board.

Of course the CG was dealing with a 4000 man rescue which had dropped on his lap out of the blue so I'm in no way blaming him. Sounds to me like he was a very big part of a first class rescue operation. Outstanding effort.

Perhaps you can confirm to me where the CG confirmed the evacuation was still in full swing? I missed it, and you seem to have heard it. At what point in the recording was it said?

 

[toad_oftoadhall]

No, you chopped the quote off my post,

I've added the chopped but back and it doesn't change the meaning at all:

The story of the guy trying to search the ship and instead becoming a casualty supports the Captain's decision to stay off the ship.

That assumes the evacuation was over and not many people were still on board, of course, and we don't know if that's the case.

If there were 2000 people still at muster points than of course the Captain should have been performing whatever role he should be according to the abandon ship procedure.

 

[haydude]

Listen to him. A 4 minute hysterical rant at the survivor of a ship wreck.
He claimed there were multiple deaths then it turned out there was only one. He seemed far more interested in humiliating the Captain than establishing anything constructive.

I agree and I am surprised that you managed to understand it despite the poor and incomplete English translation from the BBC.

Practically the CC officer sounds very angry and he does not let the Captain talk.
At the start of the conversation (omitted from BBC translation): CC officer: "I am going to wreck your life Captain, do you understand!?"

The Captain towards the end of the call attempts to tell that: "I did not abandon ship, the ship listed and we fell in the water" and adds "how am I supposed to get back with the ship listing, there is no way to get back up there". That part too is omitted from the BBC transcript.

 

[Seajet]

toad oftoadhall,

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but there can be no question the Captain should have stayed on board.

As for getting back up the ladder I agree that was a problem, but if he'd mentioned that ( if even considering going back ) I'd think a helicopter could have set him down, with a radio.

I do think it quite possible that Nigel1's mention of shock / PTSD type affliction is true; but to put it bluntly, if anyone was going to put themselves at risk and get a broken leg or worse, it should have been him.

The CG was not trying to humiliate him - it was a private call not radio - but jolt him into action; I thought the CG came over extremely well.

 

[ffiill]

mmm-the Titanic-lifeboats stripped from the first class promenade deck because it made the boat not look streamline enough and got in way of passengers promenading-the ad and marketing execs.
Steaming at full speed through fog where there was a danger of icebergs to keep/beat speed records and maintain Royal Mail contract.
Lifeboats that couldnt be launched.
Oh and then there was I believe the Daily Mails memorable phrase " The Unsinkable" which the ad execs played for all it was worth.
Have we learned nothing?
Oh and had the ship hit the iceberg head on whilst it would have shortened it by about 50 feet and killed all the off duty stokers she would not have sunk-.
Most of this info was provided by a retired naval architect who trained at Harland and Wolf post ww1.
Never forget hitting the beach at Calais in The Herald of Free Enterprise-well actually being sat right in the bow in my Mini metro when several hundred yards off the ramp in the harbour they opened the doors!

 

[haydude]

One of the shopping channels... (Ideal World) .. has got "Amazing Cruise Deals" running.... quick tune in!

Good grief.... 14 nights on Thompson... all inclusive... £949 quid!

Thats cheaper than staying at home...

It may become a new fashion for "extreme" holidays. Schettino may even be hired for those who will pay good money to live such situation.

Tell me that this cruise isn't going to be unforgettable!

 

[longjohnsilver]

toad oftoadhall,

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but there can be no question the Captain should have stayed on board.

As for getting back up the ladder I agree that was a problem, but if he'd mentioned that ( if even considering going back ) I'd think a helicopter could have set him down, with a radio.

I do think it quite possible that Nigel1's mention of shock / PTSD type affliction is true; but to put it bluntly, if anyone was going to put themselves at risk and get a broken leg or worse, it should have been him.

The CG was not trying to humiliate him - it was a private call not radio - but jolt him into action; I thought the CG came over extremely well.

Whilst I have some sympathy for him, he was probably suffering from shock, he still lied when interviewed later claiming he was the last off the ship. That was nothing more than trying to cover his @rse.

 

[Tidewaiter2]

Listen to him. A 4 minute hysterical rant at the survivor of a ship wreck.

He claimed there were multiple deaths then it turned out there was only one. He seemed far more interested in humiliating the Captain than establishing anything constructive.

Also, as I say, I'm really not convinced that it's a good idea to send someone *up* a ladder that people are escaping down.

Also it was clear the Captain was unwilling to go back aboard. If the CG needed a ship's crewmember on board for any reason he should have asked for another officer to go on board in place of the Captain once it was clear the Captain wan't up for it. Twisting the Captain's arm was just wasting time. In fact I suspect there was no need for the Captain to go back aboard - that demand was to humilate him, not because the rescue required him on board.

Of course the CG was dealing with a 4000 man rescue which had dropped on his lap out of the blue so I'm in no way blaming him. Sounds to me like he was a very big part of a first class rescue operation. Outstanding effort.

Perhaps you can confirm to me where the CG confirmed the evacuation was still in full swing? I missed it, and you seem to have heard it. At what point in the recording was it said?

The CG was pissed off because that Captain should have been last off-Italian Maritime law requirement per some of the sea professional internet posts, let alone 'usage of the sea'.
If he'd lost it, the FO should have held it together-but he was on the dock by then too, unfortunately, which is why he has been arrested also.
The senior Purser and the rest of the crew had to get on with it as best they could.

A lot of the CG helio IR footage SHOWS SHIP ON IT'S SIDE, bods still waving/debarking and CG cutters, ribs etc picking them up, while the Capt is ashore dry and being interviewed on TV-the last of the passengers and crew did not get off until 05.00+ i understand from the official Italian sources.

Thats 'Sauve qui Peut' on his part,in my book, not 'Abandon Ship'.

 

[Tidewaiter2]

+1 to all that, Seajet

toad oftoadhall,

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt, but there can be no question the Captain should have stayed on board.

As for getting back up the ladder I agree that was a problem, but if he'd mentioned that ( if even considering going back ) I'd think a helicopter could have set him down, with a radio.

I do think it quite possible that Nigel1's mention of shock / PTSD type affliction is true; but to put it bluntly, if anyone was going to put themselves at risk and get a broken leg or worse, it should have been him.

The CG was not trying to humiliate him - it was a private call not radio - but jolt him into action; I thought the CG came over extremely well.

+1 to all the above, even a humble yacht skipper has the same duty to his crew in similar circs, let alone 4000 souls- you wear the hat, you do the job.

 

[lenseman]

The rock the Costa Concordia initially hit could well have been the Secca della Croce, about 1.5 M NW of the final resting place. . . . . . . .

The 'rock' you call Secca dell Croce" is in fact a set of shoals where the sea bottom rises from 110 - 142 metres depth up to 4½ - 19 metres depth at location 42° 23.220'N 010° 54.248'E.

It is marked as a rocky bottom with no buoy or light.

 

[Cruiser2B]

Can anyone post the article where it says the metal was found on the East side of Scola Piccola? The previous article that mentioned this: http://www.corriere.it/Internationa...2/01/17/crew-mutinied-behalf-passengers.shtml
had this to say about it:

Yesterday, frogmen from the Genoa Carabinieri unit were diving from the promontory below the Tievoli household. They were looking for the precise point of impact and they found it, eight metres down where the underwater gap widens at the Scola piccola, the most seaward exposed rock. There were also two pieces of the ship’s hull, conclusive proof of a violent impact, consistent with a vessel out of control. The divers measured the distance from the closest part of the shoreline and the result was a verdict in itself. The distance is 92 to 96 metres, which means the 114,000-ton leviathan was in the area where swimming is permitted

Where the underwater gap widens? I know GoogleEarth isn't the best tool, but if by shoreline, they mean Giglio proper then 92-96 metres from the easternmost point is in the middle of the gap.

 

[SailorBill]

Newsnight

I've just watched an item on BBC2's Newsnight saying they have evidence that the Costa Concordia took a very similar route past the island on August 14th last year. Someone from LLoyds List was interviewed and confirmed what the reporter had said. The route shown was similar to but not quite as close as the route on 13th January.

 

[janeczku]

Based on the available AIS data and the time of accident put by authorities at 20.45 hours, i made this illustration.

By the looks of it, CC still did a wicket 15 knots (almost cruise speed) when colliding with the rocks.
If one would shift the route 300m east though, it would be a proper fly-by going in parallel to the pier and pointing east of the upper end of the port bay. It might have been the high approach speed that caused the ships actual route to be closer to the shore than probably intended in planning.

Having come aware of the problem, captain augmented the turn to hard starboard. Such a maneuver would cause a sideways movement of the ship in the direction of original heading (rocks) as well as the aft of the ship swinging out portside.
This would explain the characteristic damage, with the hole being at the aft of the ship, while mid-ship stabilisator is not damaged at all.

 

[MapisM]

Listen to him. A 4 minute hysterical rant at the survivor of a ship wreck.

May I ask you if Italian is your mother tongue?
Because it's mine, and what I heard were rather instructions meant - aside from any possible support to the rescue operations - to avoid the captain a criminal charge worth up to 12 years of jail, according to IT law.
A charge the captain is now going to face, I'm afraid.
Whether he'll be declared guilty, it's not up to myself or any forum to decide, thanks God.
But in the captain's boots, I would rather regret now not having followed the instructions of that "histerical rant".

 

[SHUG]

My Ouijaboard comes up with ~Manolo the favourite waiter says '' Oh me capitano I am so very happy you invite me an not that spoilt Cianti sloshing fisherwomman up to your bridge.
How mucha closer can we get eh?
Wanna geta the rocks off?

This is all getting a bit silly!