Costa Concordia (Titanic 2012)

[RichardS]

I don't claim to be an expert on Italy but I have been there on holiday a number of times and it has been impossible to miss the competitive psyche that exists both on the road or on the water. There are numerous examples I could give of this but maybe the nearest one to this situation would be my experience of the ferry drivers on Lake Maggiore. These passenger ferries,which are a fair size,run a very regular service both clockwise and anti-clockwise around the second biggest lake in Italy in order that passengers can hop on and off much like a bus service so,in season,there are a number of them regularly on the go. Usually,when I have used them they have arrived at speed towards the jetties going into reverse just at the moment that they can achieve a high-speed drift ending up with mooring bollards perfectly aligned when they stop.Typically,the skipper will have at least two other crew with him as he does it and it will be clear for all to see amidst the banter that has yet again accompanied this amazing manouevre,the esteem the skipper receives and revels in. Alternatively,go to any city in Italy and take a taxi ride,Fiumicino airport into Rome is a good one,if you dare.

With much historical justification, we are always on tricky ground when stereotyping (and I should know, having had my knuckles rapped previously!).

Italy has always been my favourite European destination and one of the things which make it so attractive to me is the flamboyant, animated, expressive, emotional and spontaneous nature of the people. I find them truly a glorious world apart from the northern European type and long may they remain so.

So far this is all upside. But, perhaps, in certain circumstances, there might be a downside?

And, for fear of another banishment, I will say no more!

Richard

 

[stillwaters]

However, I detect real tension in the conversation between the CC captain and the harbour authorities and I am a bit puzzled by it. What business is it of the Giglio harbourmaster to repeatedly tell the CC captain to return to his vessel? I wonder whether there is some previous antagonism between the 2 people concerned and even whether the Giglio harbourmaster had previously voiced concern about these unauthorised fly bys

Might yet turn out be a good point and,if you take into account the claimed previous near passes,was this mess a result of trying to show off by going even nearer than had previously been achieved. My own post #535 was along the same lines and,as you say,maybe this sort of thing didn't sit well with the harbourmaster who might understandably be protective of his own patch.

On the other point about the actual rock(s) hit,it's surely the most easterly one (not the gap) from reports already received and,bearing in mind,that the ship was already listing when beached,hence the inability to launch further lifeboats by then,it would seem quite likely that starboard damage would have occured on the rocks as she came in to rest,albeit possibly slowly.

 

[stillwaters]

With much historical justification, we are always on tricky ground when stereotyping (and I should know, having had my knuckles rapped previously!).

Italy has always been my favourite European destination and one of the things which make it so attractive to me is the flamboyant, animated, expressive, emotional and spontaneous nature of the people. I find them truly a glorious world apart from the northern European type and long may they remain so.

So far this is all upside. But, perhaps, in certain circumstances, there might be a downside?

And, for fear of another banishment, I will say no more!

Richard

Oh go on,live dangerously and practice what you preach. By the sound of it,you've possibly been with the same taxi drivers that I have - great fun when it works but plenty of wrecked cars and bikes to show that it's not always so.

 

[maxi77]

Do you watch the BBC, Sky, ITN, etc?

The real point is no one knows what editing has been done etc to this tape. Without knowing the tape is original unedited material it means little irrespective of who plays it. Remember all the 'facts' about the McCanns that appeared from apparently reliable sources that was later shown to be untrue.

 

[Zen Zero]

I've lived in Italy for the last 17 years. The harbour master in the phone conversation is at Livorno, he is responsible for coordinating the emregency response. From 100 miles away, he is telling the ship's master (who is in a lifeboat underneath the bow) to get back on his ship because basically, it was bad form for him to have left it. The HM is specific, he says "there is a rope ladder at the bow, go up it and get back on the brigde". To have done so, would have meant clearing the ladder of people coming down, putting more lives at risk, simply to conform to the HM's idea of good form.

Schettino is being made a scapegoat for the lax habits of mariners and coastguard over many years that led to this kind of behaviour being the norm. I expect they'll pull it off too. A senior coastguard official is already spending more time with his family for suggesting that it's not just Schettino who's responsible for what happened.

Not that Schettino has covered himself in glory so far - "that rock should not have been there" !

 

[Seajet]

,if you take into account the claimed previous near passes,was this mess a result of trying to show off by going even nearer than had previously been achieved.

There is a definite character trait in some people to do this sort of thing; it's always mystified me, but it definitely exists, I've seen it first hand.

This idiotic closing with the coast is being called a 'fly-by', as we know some aircraft pilots get tempted to buzz the houses of friends & relations; even that, risking one pilot and his expensive aircraft, is likely to result in disciplinary action nowadays.

I've known highly skilled Test Pilots, the top of the top, who had an absolute penchant for flying ever lower & faster; one RAF bod I can think of flew a Hawk underneath power cables at high speed - the experienced engineer in the back thought 'this is it' so ejected, leaving the pilot to answer some awkward questions when he landed without him ! He got away with it only because his skills were required for something coming up.

I can well imagine the Italian temperament being more predisposed to this sort of thing; that's not an insult, in a way it's a sneaking admiration - I just never in my wildest dreams imagined anyone would do it with 4,000 odd people and a 115,000 ton ship, I suppose at least this Captain will get into the history books !!!

 

[Bilgediver]

LOADS of ships lost in the Inside Passage...

I suspect you are referring to the "Queen of the North" accident in the mid 00's... She was running at 17knots at night and failed to make a turn... running up onto Gill Island... 2 people are now thought to have died... (Though there is a bit of mystery about this as the two passengers.. a husband and wife... were reported ashore.... and their bodies have never been found...)

I thought this accident had been explained....Not a deliberate case of trying to view the coast. More a case of failing to make a scheduled turn as the male and female officers on watch became distracted???????? Maybe a rumour I picked up in hallowed BC Ferry land

 

[idpnd]

It would actually appear that fly-bys are a common ocurrence, this time they just overdid it a bit. The helmsman (I read somewhere it was the Captain) must have panicked and spun the tiller over, thereby sliding the port side into the rocks.. We've all forgotten about that pivoting point when handling boats in port before haven't we..

 

[Forty_Two]

Alternatively,go to any city in Italy and take a taxi ride,Fiumicino airport into Rome is a good one,if you dare.

Was there in September, our water bus was competely cut-up by another empty one in the airport channel that decided to have some fun. Ours had to go hard astern & a collision was just avoided.

This seemed normal from what I obsrved in the next few days around Venice. Not for the faint hearted. It's in the blood I reckon.

 

[Cruiser2B]

The reports so far state that debris was found east of Isola Le Scole which is most definitely not between the 2 islands.

Can you post a link to the reports that state this?

Sorry but is there any evidence that the CC went through the gap between the islands?

There was the account from one of the passengers that after the ship apparently struck bottom it immediately rolled violently to port, and thereafter started listing to starboard. There is also the sticky matter of it listing to starboard if the only hole is on the port side.

 

[Blueboatman]

Ok let's add some more speculation. What about a mystery surface current that drew the ship to landward of it's intended flypath? If the ships course already left very little margin for swinging the stern landwards, they be snookered before they realised they were out of room for manoeuvring.
Cue local fishermen to explain local currents.....

 

[Seajet]

Can you post a link to the reports that state this?

There was the account from one of the passengers that after the ship apparently struck bottom it immediately rolled violently to port, and thereafter started listing to starboard. There is also the sticky matter of it listing to starboard if the only hole is on the port side.

If it's accepted that the only damage on the starboard side is due to the final grounding, then it's quite possible the roll to starboard was caused either by free surface water sloshing around, or the crew filling ballast tanks to counter the ingress to port.

There has been the suggestion that the ship was deliberately flooded down to starboard due to the shelf there compared to the deep water to port; if that turns out to be true, whoever did that was extraordinarily quick thinking and cool in the crisis.

 

[Twister_Ken]

What about a mystery surface current that drew the ship to landward
:

I suspect the mystery current came from the latest edition of The Ship's Captain's Big Book Of Excuses.

 

[Seajet]

I suspect the mystery current came from the latest edition of The Ship's Captain's Big Book Of Excuses.

This Captain is unlucky, if there were still raids on Libya going on he could say the Americans were spoofing GPS again ( they have promised not to nowadays ) - but UFO involvement is still available, as is Atlantis.

 

[Danny_Labrador]

Between

Sorry but is there any evidence that the CC went through the gap between the islands?

I can't see the liner of being capable of going between the two islets - just don't believe it. It comes I belive from a track image early on showing this route. Must have been made up.

However, (again early on in this thread), there was a commnet/ quote that passengers had reported that at the time of impact they passed very close to rocks level with the fourth deck level (?) - what does that mean ?

 

[Searush]

I can't see the liner of being capable of going between the two islets - just don't believe it. It comes I belive from a track image early on showing this route. Must have been made up.

However, (again early on in this thread), there was a commnet/ quote that passengers had reported that at the time of impact they passed very close to rocks level with the fourth deck level (?) - what does that mean ?

Yes, it came from a Turkish Web site, which MUST be utterly reliable, mustn't it?

 

[Boomshanka]

Yes, it came from a Turkish Web site, which MUST be utterly reliable, mustn't it?

The 'fourth floor' quote came from a French newspaper quoting passengers on board (via Timshel post #315)

http://www.sudouest.fr/2012/01/15/l-impensable-naufrage-605384-4710.php

 

[neale]

However, (again early on in this thread), there was a commnet/ quote that passengers had reported that at the time of impact they passed very close to rocks level with the fourth deck level (?) - what does that mean ?

See my post no. 345

 

[maxi77]

It would actually appear that fly-bys are a common ocurrence, this time they just overdid it a bit. The helmsman (I read somewhere it was the Captain) must have panicked and spun the tiller over, thereby sliding the port side into the rocks.. We've all forgotten about that pivoting point when handling boats in port before haven't we..

In the case of big ships they don't pivot like yachts, they have advance and transfer. To end up on the correct track big ships will put the wheel over maybe a few cables before the new track.

 

[Searush]

The 'fourth floor' quote came from a French newspaper quoting passengers on board (via Timshel post #315)

http://www.sudouest.fr/2012/01/15/l-impensable-naufrage-605384-4710.php

Oh, sorry I forgot to spell out every detail. didn't I? The assumed track between the islands was from Turkish site.

I don't think the passenger sighting of rocks as high as the "4th Floor" has much, if any, significance for several reasons. Deck 4 may not be that high above water level, espeially when the ship is filling with water & ballast tanks are being filled to help keep it level. The apparent height can be distorted by a slight list, and there was a fair list even before she grounded & finally, that sighting may well have been of the rocks on grounding which were only about 50m off the grounding position. Too many variables to offer much insight.