Stork_III
Well-known member
Thanks.
Costa Concordia (Titanic 2012)
- Thread starter RichardTaylor
- Start date
chewi
Active member
What about 6th Jan? the link in post #420 says it happened then as well. If so, was that also off-the-cuff?
toad_oftoadhall
New member
Navigazione Turistica. So reading between the lines, although Costa Cruises say they didn't authorize this 'detour' the Captain *is* permitted to make detours at will and without informing them?
Not that that excuses crashing a ship into an island.
Not that that excuses crashing a ship into an island.
Kukri
Well-known member
That is a very significant piece of information.
A Master Mariner friend tells me that there is or used to be something in the P&O Cruises company standing instructions covering sight seeing diversions close to shore, which boiled down to, "If you decide to do this, make sure that you have a bullet proof passage plan before doing it!"
If the August "salute" was pre-arranged, with company approval, then there will have been a passage plan with a risk assessment, both written down. A different kettle of fish.
As I think I mentioned earlier, a simple check for any error in the chart/GPS datum is to overlay the radar plot on the chart - easy to do with a modern ECDIS.
But I wonder if he just got too close, saw the islet looming up out of the dark and went to starboard, swinging the starboard quarter into the rock.
(Years ago, maybe 1993-ish, I recall an episode involving a Carnival ship with two Italian officers on the bridge where the ship ploughed into a small Cuban tanker lying dead ship and showing no lights, because the officers were not using the radar (they were exonerated because, by good fortune, a young girl had had a row with her boyfriend, had flounced out of the disco and was standing looking over the rail when she saw the black hulk loom up ahead, so her evidence confirmed that the Cuban was unlit. This provokes the reflection that, just maybe, Italian officers are less keen on radar than some other nationalities, eg the British, just as Chinese deck officers seem incredibly reluctant to take a gyro error... but I am probably wrong to generalise from one incident!)
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chewi
Active member
permitted, encouraged, obliged...I wonder where Costa sit betwwn these. They can't not have known it happened this appers to have been at least the 3rd time...can they?
Erik C
Active member
From Der Spiegel.
Costa Cruises, which owns the ship, distanced itself from the captain on Monday, saying that the wreck amounted to human error. The ship's navigation systems were fully operational, CEO Pier Luigi Foschi told reporters, and added that the route had been correctly programmed. "Captain Schettino took an initiative of his own will which is contrary to our written rules of conduct," Foschi said. "The fact that (the ship) left from its course is due solely to a maneuver by the commander that was unapproved, unauthorized and unknown to Costa."
Kukri
Well-known member
Just as an aside - on modern cruise ships most of the furniture is not bolted or chained down.
With passenger cabin doors opening inwards, the risk of being trapped inside a cabin by furniture sliding down against the door as the ship heels must be present.
It used to be traditional in ship design that any door needed as an escape opens inwards (otherwise it may be blocked by debris outside) but maybe the cabin furniture should be secured against blocking the door, espescially with older and very young passengers.
With passenger cabin doors opening inwards, the risk of being trapped inside a cabin by furniture sliding down against the door as the ship heels must be present.
It used to be traditional in ship design that any door needed as an escape opens inwards (otherwise it may be blocked by debris outside) but maybe the cabin furniture should be secured against blocking the door, espescially with older and very young passengers.
ThreeSummers
Active member
The Captain is in charge. At least six people have died that wouldn't have if he had stuck to the original course.
He, ultimately, is responsible!
I take tourists out almost every day on a tiny boat (10 pax), and I am aware of my responsibilities to them - even on that little boat on a river I'm not going to deviate from my plan, no matter who asks me...
Tim.
chewi
Active member
well they would distance themselves now, but it seems they approved of it in Aug 2011. It may have happened again on 6th jan, so did they object, or was it convenient to let it happen and leve the captain to take the flak?
I'm not suggesting Costa wanted him to take risks with the ship(that would be absurd), but it's tourist entertainment, and seemingly up to the captain not to screw it up. or else.
They must have known it was going on in some measure, so there may be a case against Costa as well as the captain.
I'm not suggesting Costa wanted him to take risks with the ship(that would be absurd), but it's tourist entertainment, and seemingly up to the captain not to screw it up. or else.
They must have known it was going on in some measure, so there may be a case against Costa as well as the captain.
Seajet
...
I've wondered about this ever since seeing that youtube clip of a liner in a severe gale with everything sliding around in the restaurant / ballroom.
I realise the hotel side will like to keep things flexible, but it just isn't seaworthy; it must be possible to have a latch system in the floors, and if it adds expense, tough.
As for cabins, I wouldn't have thought they change much very often, surely the furniture could / should be built in or really well secured ?
ThreeSummers
Active member
That too!
DownWest
Well-known member
As Minn said way above ,even if they did not know what he was doing this time, their lack of procedures to check his past record on 'show boating' makes them liable. Allowing it makes them doubly so.
DW
toad_oftoadhall
New member
I agree. I never bought this idea that the Captain was on some kind of illicit solo fly past. It always seemed far more likely that a Captain would have the freedom to show his passengers points of interest along the way. (I'm not saying he didn't enjoy showing off or that that wasn't a factor in his proximity to danger - just that I bet he was allowed to detour to go past islands at will.)
How many customers would Costa have as the carrier who never show you the scenery? I'd have thought that a view of an Island at dinner time would please the guests, and happy guests mean happy Costa. I doubt Costa forbid their ships from going off piste, quite the opposite, but they have every reason to claim they forbid it.
I also wonder if time will reveal a different picture of the Captain's abandonment of the boat before everyone was off? I'd like to know how many were still on and if he followed the company "abandon ship" procedure to the end. I have a feeling we might find he left after his work was done, but while some stragglers were still finding their way off the boat. With people still missing and potentially still alive he could never be last off could he!
So I expect time will reveal a different story. But the fact remains that he drove a ship into an island and he will rightly spend some time in prison and his career will be over. And living with 20 odd deaths on your concience will be all but unbearable, I would think.
A story with a proper villain who shows off at the cost of people's lives and leaves them to their fate will sell papers, but is it true?
All the above is pure conjecture.
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toad_oftoadhall
New member
Are there any cruise firms that tie their captains to a course?
What about Antarctica Cruises? People want to see icebergs. Surely the captain is allowed to find Icebergs and get close within the limits of safety.
I imagine that the Med would have similar point so interest. If it's a nice clear moonlit night go near Giglia to catch it in the moonlight. That kind of thing.
Costa have every reason to lie and spin this. Costa have every reason to want their ships to make crowd pleaseing passes by Islands at Dinner time
it would amaze me if his original decision to detour was against company policy or even frowned upon.
None of which excuses the Captain driving his boat into the Island for which he alone is to blame.
Twister_Ken
Well-known member
A tiny island, in the dark, in January, when everyone at table?
chewi
Active member
It seems to have been done twice before...
toad_oftoadhall
New member
If I'd paid for a cruise, I'd love the ship to be passing an island when I was looking out of the restaurant windows. (Was it a fullish moon? I think it was.)
But that's not my point. My point is that I bet Cruise Captains can deviate from their basic route at will and that is what the term Navigazione Turistica means. Costa imply otherwise.
All conjecture on my part.
Plomong
Well-known member
The rock the Costa Concordia initially hit could well have been the Secca della Croce, about 1.5 M NW of the final resting place.
That would account for the captain saying that the rock was not on his charts, maybe ???
chewi
Active member
I don't think theres any suggestion he did a 1.5 mile U turn from NW of his resting place.
Divers have found hulll plating east of the islets in the SE corner, putting it 95m from the shore there, so I think not.
Seajet
...
Toadoftoadhall,
I don't know about liners, but most ships are very strictly tied to A to B passages, largely due to fuel costs and schedules; on supertankers for instance the skipper has to justify every course change, which some think leads to small boats being run down.
I'd be pretty sure there would be a set itinerary and that's it; and passing close to an island in the dark seems unlikely to be regarded a worthwhile effort as far as entertaining the passengers is concerned.
Whether Costa agreed with the idea of it being a tradition of the ship for company internal reasons is another matter...
I don't know about liners, but most ships are very strictly tied to A to B passages, largely due to fuel costs and schedules; on supertankers for instance the skipper has to justify every course change, which some think leads to small boats being run down.
I'd be pretty sure there would be a set itinerary and that's it; and passing close to an island in the dark seems unlikely to be regarded a worthwhile effort as far as entertaining the passengers is concerned.
Whether Costa agreed with the idea of it being a tradition of the ship for company internal reasons is another matter...
