photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
BBC news 24 now is showing increadibly footage from the rescue with the recording of the conversation of the skipper and the coastguard telling him to get back on board.
Costa Concordia (Titanic 2012)
- Thread starter RichardTaylor
- Start date
haydude
New member
Again, massive GPS error?
I have. That is the last position reported when she finally grounded (second time) at 22:02 GMT+1. The position puts the ship on the chart, where she is lying now, in 80m deep waters at least 300m to the East of where she in real life.
There must be some thruth in what the Captain says. For how reckless he might have been he has a family a daughter, a life and experience and he must have been scrutinized before being offered the position he had. I struggle to believe that he had done a mistake so big without any other unexpected factor involved.
If the black box data will report the same position reported through the AIS track, then it will be revealed that a massive GPS error, in the order of hundreds of meters, unlike the tens of meters we are used to, was a significant contributor to the accident. Clearly he realized there was something wrong with his position and he took control but only when it was too late.
Either the GPS signal was being jammed at the time or the whole Island is shifted about 200-300 meters to the West on my chart and google's chart.
If that is the case the Captain's fault is to rely totally upon electronic navigation without leaving sufficient margins. That is unforgivable.
What happened later ... looking at the interview he was under unbelievable pressure (eyes twiching) and in shock. Also unforgivable, but different people reacts to stress in different ways.
He must have shutdown and gone into denial mode almost immediately. After having realized what happened he must have known very well that his life was finished.
Italians are very outspoken and do not really watch out for "ruffling feathers". Did you listen to the deputy mayor interview on the BBC? You would not get such outspoken openness in Britain. That is to say that he knew what would happen next to him. Guilty before being proven guilty by public opinion's trial.
Also at last night's talk show on RAI 1 the invited passengers initially strongly criticized the crew but then someone noted that:
1) almost everyone of 4700 were saved
2) crew had actually had to break steel barriers with hacksaws to allow the lifeboats to shift enough outward to be launched when the ship was listing. Steel wires also had to be cut using hacksaws because jammed due to the listing.
3) only two lifeboats remained on board, all the other ones were launched.
The only problem was the 55 minutes delay in giving the abandon ship order. But in such large ship, if you were the skipper, wouldn't you want to have the damage assessed first? Given such large ship, communications must have taken their time.
Also the Captain might have thought that the ship would have rested on the sea bed without listing that much giving plenty of time (second greatest mistake).
Also how is it that the ship listed opposite the steep slope and cliff? Luck?
Witnesses at last night program also said that the ship first listed to port, then righted itself at which point some left the lifeboats and returned on board thinking it was going to be OK (this happened BEFORE the abandon ship signal).
Were the officers busy shifting ballast?
I have. That is the last position reported when she finally grounded (second time) at 22:02 GMT+1. The position puts the ship on the chart, where she is lying now, in 80m deep waters at least 300m to the East of where she in real life.
There must be some thruth in what the Captain says. For how reckless he might have been he has a family a daughter, a life and experience and he must have been scrutinized before being offered the position he had. I struggle to believe that he had done a mistake so big without any other unexpected factor involved.
If the black box data will report the same position reported through the AIS track, then it will be revealed that a massive GPS error, in the order of hundreds of meters, unlike the tens of meters we are used to, was a significant contributor to the accident. Clearly he realized there was something wrong with his position and he took control but only when it was too late.
Either the GPS signal was being jammed at the time or the whole Island is shifted about 200-300 meters to the West on my chart and google's chart.
If that is the case the Captain's fault is to rely totally upon electronic navigation without leaving sufficient margins. That is unforgivable.
What happened later ... looking at the interview he was under unbelievable pressure (eyes twiching) and in shock. Also unforgivable, but different people reacts to stress in different ways.
He must have shutdown and gone into denial mode almost immediately. After having realized what happened he must have known very well that his life was finished.
Italians are very outspoken and do not really watch out for "ruffling feathers". Did you listen to the deputy mayor interview on the BBC? You would not get such outspoken openness in Britain. That is to say that he knew what would happen next to him. Guilty before being proven guilty by public opinion's trial.
Also at last night's talk show on RAI 1 the invited passengers initially strongly criticized the crew but then someone noted that:
1) almost everyone of 4700 were saved
2) crew had actually had to break steel barriers with hacksaws to allow the lifeboats to shift enough outward to be launched when the ship was listing. Steel wires also had to be cut using hacksaws because jammed due to the listing.
3) only two lifeboats remained on board, all the other ones were launched.
The only problem was the 55 minutes delay in giving the abandon ship order. But in such large ship, if you were the skipper, wouldn't you want to have the damage assessed first? Given such large ship, communications must have taken their time.
Also the Captain might have thought that the ship would have rested on the sea bed without listing that much giving plenty of time (second greatest mistake).
Also how is it that the ship listed opposite the steep slope and cliff? Luck?
Witnesses at last night program also said that the ship first listed to port, then righted itself at which point some left the lifeboats and returned on board thinking it was going to be OK (this happened BEFORE the abandon ship signal).
Were the officers busy shifting ballast?
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D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
That seems to knock out the theory that the ship sailed between the 2 islands which was always fanciful anyway. So it would seem to support the theory that the captain misjudged the position at which he intended to make a starboard turn for the 'fly by' past the island and the ship clipped Le Scole as the turn was being made. The question remains whether the ship was closer to Le Scole than the electronic charts indicated as a result of some charting or GPS error or the captain simply misjudged how much sea room the ship needed to make the turn
photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
Before anyone makes any more comments...
You guys need to listen to the piece on news 24 with the audio recordings from the coastguard and the helicopter footage from the night rescue....
Its simply extraordinary
You guys need to listen to the piece on news 24 with the audio recordings from the coastguard and the helicopter footage from the night rescue....
Its simply extraordinary
Metabarca
Well-known member
The islanders knew there was to be a fly-by: the chief steward's sister posted it on Facebook shortly before CC hove into view, saying the ship would pass 'vicina vicina' (v.v.close).
Also allegedly, the captain took the helm himself after disactivating the auto-helm. Perhaps his was a compound of errors: GPS error, not looking out of the window, not gauging how much the stern would swing round on turning to starboard.
It would appear CC beached where she did thanks to the current, because the engines had shut down before she reached that position.
Also allegedly, the captain took the helm himself after disactivating the auto-helm. Perhaps his was a compound of errors: GPS error, not looking out of the window, not gauging how much the stern would swing round on turning to starboard.
It would appear CC beached where she did thanks to the current, because the engines had shut down before she reached that position.
SailorBill
New member
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16597277
I'm not sure what to make of this. Was the captain scared, in shock, a coward, what?
I'm not sure what to make of this. Was the captain scared, in shock, a coward, what?
D
Deleted User YDKXO
Guest
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16597277
I'm not sure what to make of this. Was the captain scared, in shock, a coward, what?
Whatever, the greater crime is not leaving the ship before everyone else had disembarked or refusing to get back on board but recklessly putting his ship in this position in the first place. Having said that, I have a smidgen of sympathy for him as he has been hung out to dry by his employers and is being mercilessly villified by the media. His life is going to be a living hell from now on
sigmasailor
New member
I simply cannot believe the accident has that simple a cause; how can a competent captain be that stupid?
How was he ever qualified?
What are the qualification criteria?
Was he ever supervised?
Is the captain a buddy of the CEO or other high ranking persons in Corsa?
Does Corsa ever verify planned against executed tracks?
Are 'sail by' actions condoned (they seem to happen all the time)?
What did the rest of his crew do while he was 'joy sailing'?
Why did they wait almost an hour before they started the evacuation?
Etc.
If we want to avoid accidents like this to happen those are the questions that need to be asked. I wouldn't be surprised if the outcome of those questions would result in a complete mentality change within Corsa. Simply scapegoating the captain (who does seem to deserve just that) will not improve safety on other passenger ships with similar qualified (macho?) captains.
How was he ever qualified?
What are the qualification criteria?
Was he ever supervised?
Is the captain a buddy of the CEO or other high ranking persons in Corsa?
Does Corsa ever verify planned against executed tracks?
Are 'sail by' actions condoned (they seem to happen all the time)?
What did the rest of his crew do while he was 'joy sailing'?
Why did they wait almost an hour before they started the evacuation?
Etc.
If we want to avoid accidents like this to happen those are the questions that need to be asked. I wouldn't be surprised if the outcome of those questions would result in a complete mentality change within Corsa. Simply scapegoating the captain (who does seem to deserve just that) will not improve safety on other passenger ships with similar qualified (macho?) captains.
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photodog
Lord High Commander of Upper Broughton and Gunthor
Actually his employers have said they would provide him with legal assistance.
He has brought shame to the entire Italian merchant fleeet.
That recording is going to be around for a long time.
Anyways.. he will be in Jail for the foreseeable I think...
Sailfree
Well-known member
wonder if his will result in Cruise companies changing their selection criteria for Captains? Perhaps ability to socialise with the passengers will not be such a high priority.
Stork_III
Well-known member
Does anyone know what "Tourist Navigation System" is. The Captain referes to it twice in this early interview. http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-16568037
Is he trying to blame the passengers? He also says in this interview he was last to leave ship.
Is he trying to blame the passengers? He also says in this interview he was last to leave ship.
Metabarca
Well-known member
Latest: data collected by the coastguard suggest the CC was travelling at 15 knots (!) when she hit the rock, which slowed her to 6 knots, probably causing some injuries amongst the passengers.
stillwaters
New member
longjohnsilver
Well-known member
The recorded conversation telling the captain to get back on board his vessel is certainly not heresay!
Erik C
Active member
haydude
New member
It is one of many poor BBC translations. The original is "navigazione turistica" which can be interpreted as "sight seeing sailing mode" (that is an idiom that I have never heard before but each category has its own idiom). It appears however that he forgot to slow down to make it really so.
Also a plea to the BBC to try and pronounce Santo Stefano correctly, the way they do it with the emphasis on the "a" sounds horrendous.
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stillwaters
New member
Thanks for that,I was also confused by this.
Now,just what is "sight seeing sailing mode" please?
sigmasailor
New member
Would 'line of sight' navigation be an accurate translation (eye balling it)?
Seajet
...
I thought 'sight seeing sailing mode' was probably the most accurate phrase he's uttered so far !
Metabarca
Well-known member
'navigazione turistica' is to 'navigate' as 'strolling and taking in the sights' is to 'walking to catch the tube'. I think that sums it up.
Now, re the suggestion that these fly-bys were connived at by Costa and so they are responsible, it transpires that the August fly-by was arranged by Costa with Palumbo, the 'grand old man' of Costa and islander, and with the coastguard, with the ship sailing by at no less than half a mile from the coast minimum. Friday's jaunt was apparently an off-the-cuff decision (although the chief steward's sister knew of it at least a few minutes before). Certainly the mayor of the island says it would be pointless from his point of view: no tourists, and all that would be seen ship-side would be a few lights in the small town.
Now, re the suggestion that these fly-bys were connived at by Costa and so they are responsible, it transpires that the August fly-by was arranged by Costa with Palumbo, the 'grand old man' of Costa and islander, and with the coastguard, with the ship sailing by at no less than half a mile from the coast minimum. Friday's jaunt was apparently an off-the-cuff decision (although the chief steward's sister knew of it at least a few minutes before). Certainly the mayor of the island says it would be pointless from his point of view: no tourists, and all that would be seen ship-side would be a few lights in the small town.
