Cost of Sailing

[Sailfree]

Just a thought for some to consider.

For those that keep their boat on S Coast in a marina a major cost is the berthing.

If you like to go to the boat every weekend this is not for you to consider but if you go infrequently but for longer durations just want to tell you my experience for you to consider.

When in UK and working I used to get out on boat for a weekend about every 4 -5 wks.

Once retired it tended to be more in the summer and often for longer periods but still often a month or so between sails.

For this in 2012 I paid £11,700pa at Hamble Point Marina. Boat is 43'. Not sure how costs have increased over last 9 yrs but doubt they have gone down.

I now live in Portugal and sailed our boat down to Nazare 4yrs ago. Cost of berth here in Nazare is €1600pa inc water and electricity.

Ryanair have recently started a service Bournemouth to Lisbon twice a week with tickets starting at £4.99. Unfortunately just to drop someone off at Bournemouth is a £3 charge! Yes prices will increase and definately dearer during school holidays but in last 5yrs living here we have never paid more than £29.99 for Stanstead to Lisbon and usually its £19.99. Easyjet Lisbon to Gatwick has been about £30. All are 2.5hr flights.

Hence if you are retired and do you sailing for a week or so each time is it worth considering marinas with sunnier weather. There are lots along the Atlantic coast in France N Spain and Portugal. You just need to find one with easy links to a airport that is served by a budget airline.

Just wanted to illustrate my experience as it may give food for thought for others.

Its sunny and 19 deg here on Silver Coast at present. Green countryside as it does occasionally rain but mostly in February! Otherwise its usually consistently 6 to 10 deg warmer than UK on any day but with Atlantic breeze rarely goes above 30 deg C at height of summer.

I am sure there are many other nice and warmer places to consider berthing a boat just wanted to give you my experience for you to consider options.

I am aware of some that use there boats for just a few months a couple of times a year and they use marinas in S France (Atlantic Coast) but have there boats stored ashore. They phone marina when arriving and boat is already in the water. Suits some.

 

[Robert Wilson]

That's a good option. Well done for posting.
I am horrified to hear how much it costs to keep a boat on the south coast
That's more in one season than I bought Khamsin for - by a long way.

 

[Graham376]

Nazare is a nice town as well as being one of the few ports of refuge in bad weather. The problem for UK based boats considering moving to EU is they can only stay for 18 months at a stretch without paying VAT. Plenty of EU VAT paid boats for sale as alternative though, some very cheap, we know several people with both UK and EU based boats, a couple of them being contributors here.

 

[syvictoria]

Sorry to put a damper on what is for many reasons undoubtedly a very appealing idea, but short haul flights are terrible for the environment. Our (UK) government are seemingly very keen to support this sector at present (what with the recent tax cut in the budget), but elsewhere there is movement to ban short and/or domestic flights.

The quickest way to become more eco? Stop taking short-haul flights

(Edit to add: Granted UK to Portugal will not easily be replaced by any other mode of transport in the near future.)

 

[Blueboatman]

Twice in my life I have spent autumnal weeks and weeks in Figuera Da Foz ‘trapped’ by the Atlantic swell . Very enjoyably it has to be said ?

Just sayin’ like

 

[Sailfree]

Sorry to put a damper on what is for many reasons undoubtedly a very appealing idea, but short haul flights are terrible for the environment. Our (UK) government are seemingly very keen to support this sector at present (what with the recent tax cut in the budget), but elsewhere there is movement to ban short and/or domestic flights.

The quickest way to become more eco? Stop taking short-haul flights

(Edit to add: Granted UK to Portugal will not easily be replaced by any other mode of transport in the near future.)

There is talk of Spain wanting a fast train service through the channel tunnel and that will be extended to Portugal.

Appreciate that short haul flights may not be environmentally friendly but wonder what the total carbon footprint must be if they can do it economically for some £30 yet an off peak train ticket Southampton to London costs IIRC some £60.

Obviously the train operator must employ 1000s to justify this cost. Whats the environmental impact of 1000s travelling to work each day - asked tongue in cheek

 

[Sailfree]

Twice in my life I have spent autumnal weeks and weeks in Figuera Da Foz ‘trapped’ by the Atlantic swell . Very enjoyably it has to be said ?

Just sayin’ like

Yes you do need to identify the 24/7 ports along the Atlantic coast if you don't want to be forced to enjoy the local town in sunny weather ? for a few days until the Atlantic swell subsides.

Just N of Porto is a port 24/7 and Nazare is 24/7. I assume most marinas along the river Tagus (Lisbon) are 24/7.

Don't confuse Nazare marina on Nazare South Beach with the unique underwater topography of Nazare N beach that gives the highest way ever surfed (see McNamara on You Tube IIRC about 2016?)

Nazare marina entrance is well designed and even idiots like me can do it in all conditions!

 

[Sandy]

Just wanted to illustrate my experience as it may give food for thought for others.

You will be aware that there are travel and VAT issues in getting to the mainland depending on how long you want to use the boat and length of time you keep it on the mainland.

 

[lustyd]

yet an off peak train ticket Southampton to London costs IIRC some £60

Indeed, [content removed].

OP good post, aside from the faff of travel I think it's a good option while borders are open. Let's not forget that some people lost access to their boats for over a year though, due to closed borders so sometimes it's worth the cost and the rain!

 

[Sailfree]

You will be aware that there are travel and VAT issues in getting to the mainland depending on how long you want to use the boat and length of time you keep it on the mainland.

Not aware of any travel issues apart from limit on length of stay [content removed].

Ref VAT i think some EU countries are more thorough than others.

But if [content removed] issues [content removed] I am considering not driving through France and only using Santandar.

 

[Blueboatman]

Not aware of any travel issues apart from limit on length of stay [content removed].

Ref VAT i think some EU countries are more thorough than others.

But if [content removed] issues [content removed] I am considering not driving through France and only using Santandar.

I think that is smart thinking
If I were footling around Europe a lot I would prefer a Spanish registered car to drive through France into uk rather than vice versa! Wot a tangled web ?

 

[Povremeni pomorac]

I am beginning to feel the same in regard to forgetting the UK and just using Croatia. I don't speak Portuguese, which I'd consider a disadvantage. Given the relative low use, isn't one better off just chartering? I keep wondering. It would be easy to say that marinas on the S coast are a rip off but the ones owned by the Welcome Trust/Foundation don't make a lot of money for it. Not surprisingly, using a marina on the IOW is considerably less than the Hamble. More hassle to get to but less (and greener) than Portugal. Town Quay Marina is less than Hamble too.

 

[nortada]

Nazare is a nice town as well as being one of the few ports of refuge in bad weather. The problem for UK based boats considering moving to EU is they can only stay for 18 months at a stretch without paying VAT. Plenty of EU VAT paid boats for sale as alternative though, some very cheap, we know several people with both UK and EU based boats, a couple of them being contributors here.

I will put my hands up.

For the past 20 years we have had one boat (power) on the East Coast and the other (sail) in the Algarve; wintering in Portugal but summering in the UK. To fund this, we sold up in Huntingdon and bought a static caravan in Essex but as we could not use the caravan as an address, we ‘moved in’ with our daughter in London. Additionally, we helped our daughter buy a holiday home in Andalusia, which provided us with an alternative base in Spain. Both boats UK flagged but boat is Essex UK VAT paid, while Portugal based boat EU VAT registered. Until 2019 this plan worked well.

But this thread is about relative costs. Twelve meters, 6 months afloat and 6 months ashore in a marina in Portugal € 4,500 but in the UK, 10 meters 6 months ashore and 6 months on a buoy (with a supporting cuddy) £2,500. Cost of living in Portugal about 70% of U.K. but a totally different life style. In Portugal eat and drink out about 4 times a week, in The UK, eat out once a week; drink on board or at home.

If you want greater detail please PM me.

Horses for courses but works for us.

 

[DownWest]

Cost of keeping a boat in Iberia are quite a lot cheaper, as is living there. But, if one lives in UK, it gets tricky on the getting south.
When I first saw this thread, I mused on living in the Algarve and I kept a small sailing boat on a trailer, so nil storage. Also a light ally boat with an outboard. Used both often. Virtually zero costs and a lot of fun. I did look after a 35 ton ketch for some clients, so knew the other side.
The coasts there are not great sailing areas in the way of some parts of the UK and here on the west coast of France (not counting Royan to Spain..)

I sorted some stuff for a client that kept his big boat on the Rias (after here) and has a much smaller boat (27ft Albin Vega) within sight of their house in UK. Could be a lot worse . They have had the smaller boat for many years.

 

[Stemar]

Alternatively, have a slightly smaller boat on a drying mooring. If it's a mooring belonging to club that isn't greedy, it's even cheaper. I just paid £150 for my mooring next year.T his for an 8m catamaran. Admittedly, I'm due to spend another couple or three hundred this year for maintenance, but that's every 2 to 3years, and don't join my club just to get a mooring, because it's dead men's shoes. A commercial drying mooring just up the harbour can be had for change from £500. Not a lot of change, but still.

 

[Sailfree]

More hassle to get to but less (and greener) than Portugal. Town Quay Marina is less than Hamble too.

First near 80% or more of people under 50 in Portugal speak English. Country is too small to have its own film industry so many programmes and films on TV are US or UK with Portuguese subtitles - even in the cinemas. Combine that with pop music and nearly all the young speak English.

As we live in Portugal we are taking Portuguese lessons and while we try and it is appreciated people speak back to us in English!

We went to an Ed Sheeran concert in Lisbon, he had 4 US supporting acts. Not an avid follower of pop music I was amazed that surrounded by Portuguese they were singing every word in English- even the young kids - they knew every lyric - made us feel old.3

Ref Greener - yes going South the Algarve can be like Spain and brown and dried up in summer but the Silver Coast to my pleasant surprise is green, hilly a lot of trees but mostly agricultural.

We are finding it easier to get to Portugal than cross country in UK with road closures overnight and railway repairs!

 

[Graham376]

There is talk of Spain wanting a fast train service through the channel tunnel and that will be extended to Portugal.
Appreciate that short haul flights may not be environmentally friendly but wonder what the total carbon footprint must be if they can do it economically for some £30 yet an off peak train ticket Southampton to London costs IIRC some £60.
Obviously the train operator must employ 1000s to justify this cost. Whats the environmental impact of 1000s travelling to work each day - asked tongue in cheek

Promises of high speed rail are usually made during election years and unlikely to happen. Ferry UK to Santander and then train down to Portuguese coast is possible but time consuming and vastly more expensive than flying. At least once you're in Portugal, train services are good and heavily subsidized, e.g. Faro to Lisbon roughly 200 miles, €30 (€15 for pensioners) all seats reserved.

Marinas are somewhat cheaper just along the coast in Andalucia or moorings can be had in a few areas, ours off Faro cost €1,500 15 or 16 years ago plus around €500 in maintenance since. For those time limited in Schengen, Morocco is roughly 30 hours direct from Algarve.

 

[LadyInBed]

I've loved my visits to Galisia and Portugal, but half of the enjoyment was getting there and the return.
Now, with the restrictions imposed by Brexit I wouldn't want to relocate.
As I don't keep the boat in a marina, hence the annual S coast cost is still less than 1k pa I'm happy to continue doing the plod across Biscay.
Pre Brexit, it might have been a different story!

 

[Kelpie]

I'm absolutely astonished at the cost of a marina berth in the Solent. I thought it topped out at about half of that figure. There are much cheaper options available in the UK.

Why Nazare? Having just been there, yes it's a nice town but the sailing options are pretty limited. You can basically go left or right, and you'd have to watch the swell carefully so as not to get stuck. Surely you get a bit bored of visiting the handful of ports that are within a few days sailing.

 

[lustyd]

I'm absolutely astonished at the cost of a marina berth in the Solent

I'm not. If you look at the cost of marina berths elsewhere in the UK the Solent offers exceptional value for money. The number of options for both short day sails and weeks away is enormous, as are the number of berths and anchorages with pubs and restaurants in walking distance. It offers all weather sailing for all abilities as well as a huge range of racing options and clubs as well as more training options than anywhere else in the UK. It also benefits from easy access for a large part of the population who can only afford a boat by being tethered to London and surrounding area. Nowhere else in the UK offers even half of this, so it's unsurprising other options are cheaper.

Money isn't everything, and cost is different to value