cost of in-boom furling?

[Oscarpop]

The time has come to change both our mainsail and jib.

At the moment we are looking at about 10k for a new set of sails. However while we are getting quotes, does anyone have experience and cost for a furling boom for a 40ft yacht? It may be an option to consider.

Cheers

 

[Tranona]

Suggest you try www.advancedrigging.co.uk who offer them in the UK or www.theriggingco.com in the US. Make sure you are sitting down when you get the quotes!

 

[thinwater]

What are the advantages/disadvantages of in-boom furling vs. rolling boom furling? On one hand, you don't need a sail cover. On the other hand, an external roll is tolerant of long battens, stiff sailcloth, and furling errors.

 

[Aja]

Excuse the ignorance, but would there be any issues with reefing?

Donald

 

[Tranona]

Excuse the ignorance, but would there be any issues with reefing?

Donald

In boom furling reefs the sail by rolling it around a mandrel inside a hollow boom. it is intended to be an efficient way of reefing the main as well as stowing it rolled up in the boom. Imagine and in mast turned through 90 degrees.

Follow the links I gave earlier for an explanation as to how they work.

 

[Iliade]

Surely in-boom furling has the same issues with sail shape as rolling boom furling? I have one of those and it's hopeless.

In-mast has to be better despite the cost. Sadly I have one of the dreaded behind the mast setups but daren't fit it lest the boat capsizes ;0)

I have simply got a smaller mainsail: no need to reef until ~F7 and I don't particularly like sailing if it is much windier than that, unless it's offshore. Just choose the right mainsail before leaving port.* Most sail adjustments can then be done with the roller furler.

* Admittedly my last boat had some ten sails, so I'm used to the concept of messing about with them, and at 26' o.a. they would be about 1/3 the size of yours

 

[doug748]

It's the future but, as already pointed out, expensive right now. It really comes into it's own with larger boats, which I assume you have Oscarpop.

Tom Cunliffe inherited a Leisure Furl with his latest boat and, despite initial scepticism, is a convert:

http://www.tomcunliffe.com/toms-top-gear/

 

[KellysEye]

Check if the sail is flat for in boom furling it is for in mast all normal sails are curved and provide drive.

 

[Tranona]

Check if the sail is flat for in boom furling it is for in mast all normal sails are curved and provide drive.

This is nonsense. You clearly have no idea how in boom furling works.

 

[Aja]

In boom furling reefs the sail by rolling it around a mandrel inside a hollow boom. it is intended to be an efficient way of reefing the main as well as stowing it rolled up in the boom. Imagine and in mast turned through 90 degrees.

Follow the links I gave earlier for an explanation as to how they work.

It would seem from your links particularly the link to the http://www.theriggingco.com that there aren't any issues, apart from the thing jamming.
" Boom Furlers: With that, let’s move on to the in-boom furler benefits list. With an in-boom furler, you have the ability to reduce weight aloft when comparing it to an in-mast or behind-the-mast system. The slot in the top of the boom is usually quite wide, minimizing the chances of a pinched sail as it’s rolled away. In-boom furlers allow for a fully battened mainsail, this promotes a much nicer sail shape with more ‘roach’, and often times even a more powerful sail-plan. Although these sails are more expensive due to the full length battens and heavier material, they offer better performance in regards to power and sail shape. If nothing else, this more robust sail will last much longer when compared to conventional or in-mast furling sails. The last benefit, and perhaps the most important is, the system uses gravity to furl the sail away. So if for some reason the user has issues with the furl, one can always just drop the sail."

Just some thoughts:
When needing to reef, possibly in adverse conditions, I would suspect that getting a decent sailshape with in boom reefing would be quite demanding. That for me would be an issue. Having to drop the sail doesn't, in my book count as reeking and having to deal with a mainsail on deck in a rising wind is possibly dangerous.
It also, is not called a reefing system but a furling system. Significant difference.

Donald

 

[Tranona]

Surely in-boom furling has the same issues with sail shape as rolling boom furling? I have one of those and it's hopeless.

In-mast has to be better despite the cost. Sadly I have one of the dreaded behind the mast setups but daren't fit it lest the boat capsizes ;0)

No. That is the whole point of the (better) types of in boom. They used batteened, shaped sails as on a conventional mast. They are very common on large (50'+) custom boats because of the difficulty of raising and lowering such large sails, on booms that are well above the deck, particularly if short handed. Many prefer them to in mast because of the perceived advantages of better sail shape and reduction in weight aloft as the sail is reefed.

Don't understand why a boat should capsize because it is fitted with in mast. Thousands of boats so fitted happily sail around without capsizing.

If you want to understand how in boom works follow the links in my earlier post.

 

[thinwater]

Surely in-boom furling has the same issues with sail shape as rolling boom furling? I have one of those and it's hopeless.

I never had that problem. The main thing is to make sure you pull the outhaul before rolling. That done, the bottom portion of the sail is pretty flat and rolls smoothly.

 

[maby]

Suggest you try www.advancedrigging.co.uk who offer them in the UK or www.theriggingco.com in the US. Make sure you are sitting down when you get the quotes!

Indeed! We did look at options to convert our previous boat to either in-boom or in-mast furling because the stack-pack was becoming too heavy for us to manage comfortably. This was a 43 foot boat and, if memory serves me correctly, the cheapest option we were quoted was around £35k plus the cost of a new sail. We ended up replacing the boat (another story) and the new one came with in-mast furling. Apart from an early jam caused by my inexperience, that is working well and I like it. We have friends who have roller-boom furling on a forty-odd foot boat and that it lovely - if it had been an option for our new boat, I would probably have taken it.

 

[jwilson]

If I was buyng a new boat and could afford it I'd definitely have a fully battened laminate mainsail with in-boom furling and a rod kicker. You can get very good sail shape indeed with in-boom, plus no stackpack or lazyjacks. Once lowered the sail is totally protected from dirt and UV. The big advantage over in-mast is that it does jam (usually doesn't ever) you can still easily lower the sail and lash it down, as almost everyone did when I started sailing.

Nothing remotely like the old roller-boom setups. A few of these (usually on shaped wooden booms) worked pretty well, except for difficulty rigging a kicker when reefed. Many later ones on straight round alloy booms were pretty horrible.

 

[thinwater]

If I was buyng a new boat and could afford it I'd definitely have a fully battened laminate mainsail with in-boom furling and a rod kicker. You can get very good sail shape indeed with in-boom, plus no stackpack or lazyjacks. Once lowered the sail is totally protected from dirt and UV. The big advantage over in-mast is that it does jam (usually doesn't ever) you can still easily lower the sail and lash it down, as almost everyone did when I started sailing.

Nothing remotely like the old roller-boom setups. A few of these (usually on shaped wooden booms) worked pretty well, except for difficulty rigging a kicker when reefed. Many later ones on straight round alloy booms were pretty horrible.

Explain how they are horrible please.

I'm living with a roller boom on my Corsair F-24 MK I, and it seems to work pretty darn well. I don't know how I would improve it.
* The tack and clew are adjusted and secured with tackles and straps, just as they are with full sail. The sails have conventional reefing patches and could be used with slab reefing. The rolling boom is really only for storage.
* So long as I flatten the foot before rolling the shape remains reasonably flat, which is what you want in a reefed sail.
* Because the sails are laminate, it avoids the flaking problem when reefed. This is a major plus.
* If the sail were in-boom, the boom would be massive and heavy, since the sail is thick and the battens are full length.
* The boat does not use a vang (kicker) because it is a multihull (wide traveler and reaches down wind).

It is quite simple to use, easily done by one person.
* Stand a the mast and crank while controlling the halyard with the other hand. Lock the handle when done.
* Thread cuningham and tension.
* Secure clew once back in the cockpit, but this can wait until thing are organized. It's just for fine tuning and to take the load when sheeted hard.

 

[jwilson]

Explain how they are horrible please.
snipped---.

The average roller boom sail on a simple round boom gets steadily fuller as you reef: the luff rope either builds up a lump near the tack or slips down against the gooseneck, which does less harm to sail shape but can damage the luff itself.

It can work pretty well, but often doesn't, and to get a kicker on you either have to have a "reefing claw" that rubs the sailcloth or organise a wrapped-in strop, which again doesn't do the cloth much good. I've sailed a few boats with roller booms that worked well, but more that didn't.

 

[thinwater]

The average roller boom sail on a simple round boom gets steadily fuller as you reef: the luff rope either builds up a lump near the tack or slips down against the gooseneck, which does less harm to sail shape but can damage the luff itself.

It can work pretty well, but often doesn't, and to get a kicker on you either have to have a "reefing claw" that rubs the sailcloth or organise a wrapped-in strop, which again doesn't do the cloth much good. I've sailed a few boats with roller booms that worked well, but more that didn't.

Thanks for the information!

The Corsair design does not suffer from most of those shortcomings. One reason, I suspect, is that the sail is loose footed and has no built-in shape in the lower sections; rolling has no affect on fulness. Second, the Cunningham hole is well above the roll, as is the tack, so shape is controlled separate from the roll; the roll holds no tension when sailing. It is ONLY for sail storage, which I think is smart for lamainate sails. The lack of vang is a serious problem on boats that need them; I've considered that, but with a beam ~ 80% of LOA, there are other options. For example, deep off the wind, a preventer rigged outboard holds the boom down.

 

[yimkin]

I had a roller boom of circular section on an Achilles 9m that I owned for 26years. It was equiped with a Proctor system which has a reefing handle on the forward side of the mast. A brilliant system! The secret is to put a flattening cringle about 1ft up the leach and tighten this and the clew outhaul before reefing. Slack off the kicking strap (which should be on a reefing claw (double type preferred). Then with the halyard in one hand turn the handle until you have the exact size of sail you desire, lock off the handle and cleat the halyard, tighten the kicking strap. You end up with a nice flat reefed sail.
I sailed mostly singlehanded and if I had to return to the cockpit at any time the system allowed a pause whilst hoisting or lowering leaving a taut luff at all times. A big bonus was dousing the sail as it takes less than 15 seconds to roll it neatly round the boom (leaving it instantly available for hoisting if required).
Oh, did I mention no stackpacks, lazyjacks sail ties, or those infernal reefing line loops cascading into the cockpit!
The only sail design 'mod' is that the batten pockets should run parallel to the boom.

 

[KellysEye]

>This is nonsense. You clearly have no idea how in boom furling works.

That's why I used the word check.

 

[westhinder]

When needing to reef, possibly in adverse conditions, I would suspect that getting a decent sailshape with in boom reefing would be quite demanding. That for me would be an issue. Having to drop the sail doesn't, in my book count as reeking and having to deal with a mainsail on deck in a rising wind is possibly dangerous.
It also, is not called a reefing system but a furling system. Significant difference.

Donald

I put hat question to an X-yachts dealer at the Hiswa boat show last week, as one of their boats had an in-boom system. His reply was that they used the full battens as reefing points, so that when reefed the sail has a good shape without needing an outhaul at the leech. He said that they never had any problems with it. FWIW