Cost of Coding a Boat

[steveej]

Evening all,

I am looking into a new (for me) boat with the current favourites being the older Beneteau's with rear cabins - First 325, First 310 and First 32s5.

I'm keen to set up a small business offering skippered charter and mile builders just to try and cover some of the overheads.

I'm a commercially endorsed YM offshore so all good there, but I am trying to work out a ball park cost of getting one of these boats coded. Has anyone done this? I would be keen to hear peoples experiences.

Is it a case of how long is a piece of string?

Am I going to go through all the legislation as per the PPR course and apply it to the boat in question before I get a sensible answer?

 

[jwilson]

Probably about £3,000 if the boat is a design that is already chartered elsewhere and thus stability data available. It could go more though if the boat not already well equipped, and you're not prepared to shop around for things like an unused S/H storm jib. A 32-footer is a bit small for skippered charter though.

 

[Heckler]

Evening all,

I am looking into a new (for me) boat with the current favourites being the older Beneteau's with rear cabins - First 325, First 310 and First 32s5.

I'm keen to set up a small business offering skippered charter and mile builders just to try and cover some of the overheads.

I'm a commercially endorsed YM offshore so all good there, but I am trying to work out a ball park cost of getting one of these boats coded. Has anyone done this? I would be keen to hear peoples experiences.

Is it a case of how long is a piece of string?

Am I going to go through all the legislation as per the PPR course and apply it to the boat in question before I get a sensible answer?

Mine was coded when I bought it. a Bene381. The biggest visible thing was fi glass tape wound around the raw water intake pipes and big signs on all the openings, keep closed at sea. The rest of it was box ticking, a spare spade anchor with a couple of mtrs chain and 30 mtsr of 10mm rope on it! About as much use as a chocolate teapot! The hand bilge pump had never been used and had a drill hole in the suction side where some dildo had drilled through the locker in to the sugar scoop and had nailed it!
There were those cheap fire extinguishers everywhere along with loads of first aid kits and a fire blanket. Basically I could go theough the long list myself and do the biz!
Stu

 

[steveej]

thanks for the replies both.

The boat will be in a bit of a backwater. and the plan is to use available weekends for 2 or 3 paying passengers at most, where they can get some serious sailing in, decent milage and learn a few of the dark arts of sailing. I'm not looking to make any money out of it, just cover some of my costs.

I don't want to offer bareboat because my feeling is it would just get trashed. Especially considering where it would be sailed.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

You need to weigh up the insurance and fees, cost of advertising, wear and tear, inspection. It hardly pays doing it full time, so covering your costs is a big hassle for not much. A bloke I am aquatinted with uses his HR as a sailing school boat, registered to his club which is also the sailing school and he has ready clients. It does not pay him but lowers his overheads and both club members and himself get lower costs, compared to going it alone. Unless you have access to something like that forget it, in my humble opinion. Folks go to sailing schools for mile builders, not guys with coded boats. If you cant afford it without this scheme, think seriously if owning a boat is for you. There is a wee bit more to it than fibre glass tape around your engine room exhaust and seawater inlet plus a few stickers here and there. I think all in you could do a well found boat for £5k, all up costs, first year, nothing else to lay out, excluding marina or mooring fees.

 

[Bobc]

I would say that the boat you have in mind is too old and too small to make it viable.

Go for an ex-charter boat (about 5 years old) of about 40ft that is already coded.

 

[Heckler]

You need to weigh up the insurance and fees, cost of advertising, wear and tear, inspection. It hardly pays doing it full time, so covering your costs is a big hassle for not much. A bloke I am aquatinted with uses his HR as a sailing school boat, registered to his club which is also the sailing school and he has ready clients. It does not pay him but lowers his overheads and both club members and himself get lower costs, compared to going it alone. Unless you have access to something like that forget it, in my humble opinion. Folks go to sailing schools for mile builders, not guys with coded boats. If you cant afford it without this scheme, think seriously if owning a boat is for you. There is a wee bit more to it than fibre glass tape around your engine room exhaust and seawater inlet plus a few stickers here and there. I think all in you could do a well found boat for £5k, all up costs, first year, nothing else to lay out, excluding marina or mooring fees.

Ive still got all the papers, its a box ticking exercise as I have said and I pointed out the more obvious stuff!
Stu

 

[capnsensible]

Have coded lots of boats. £5k would probably be a good average cost.

Key is the stability category. That gives your limits of operation. Most go for Cat 2 to operate up to 60 miles from a safe haven.

Its straigtforward but you could think of ongoing costs of interim surveys in and out of the water over five years, costs of servicing liferaft, lifejackets, gas installation inspection, yadda, yadda. Over 5 years it all adds up.

Then you have to get the customers! Advertising, even with Facebook, Twitter and all the rest uses a lot of your time.

Good luck though, when it works its great!

 

[Deleted member 36384]

Ive still got all the papers, its a box ticking exercise as I have said and I pointed out the more obvious stuff!
Stu

Sure, you just get a form and tick the boxes, then your coded.

 

[Deleted member 36384]

... Am I going to go through all the legislation as per the PPR course and apply it to the boat in question before I get a sensible answer?

The PPR course should give you the facts and all the information, including the various documents that you need to comply with, very worthwhile course, in my opinion. In the meantime read up and go to the links:

http://www.rya.org.uk/newsevents/e-...ed/Pages/five-minute-briefing-mca-coding.aspx

The boat requires fitting out and equipping to the standards required in MGN 280.

Google MGN280 or go to the MCA website and enter MGN280 into their search function. That's the stuff you have to tick off.

 

[Neil_Y]

Mine didn't cost much more than the survey cost as pretty much all the safety gear is common sense stuff you should have any way. Biggest jobs, I had to re rout the heads to fit an anti syphon valve and turn the front hatch around.

When I did mine it was the blue code and you just go through the checklist and ask the surveyor his opinion if it it doesn't make sense on your boat. Some of the requirements were very open to interpretation so your solution needs to be the one the surveyor is happy with. our hatch closing opening system was his suggestion.

 

[chrishelen]

I coded up a small fishing boat to take passengers. The biggest problem was the swamp test. I didn't realise that you had to make the boat unsinkable, the surveyor wanted lots of closed cell foam in all the void spaces, and I had to construct a few more voids to fill. My own fault for not researching properly.

 

[Amphitrite]

I don't want to offer bareboat because my feeling is it would just get trashed. Especially considering where it would be sailed.

And where would that be? The location would probably play an important role in th potential market opportunities...

 

[Heckler]

Sure, you just get a form and tick the boxes, then your coded.

You seem to be determined to turn this in to an argument! As usual!
I put the FACTS on here as evidenced by my boat when I bought it, Most of the stuff on it was put there as a box ticking exercise. Neil_y confirms that. The papers that were in the boat from the surveys are still in the folder, its not rocket science, again, as Neil said!
Stu

 

[Deleted member 36384]

You seem to be determined to turn this in to an argument! As usual!
I put the FACTS on here as evidenced by my boat when I bought it, Most of the stuff on it was put there as a box ticking exercise. Neil_y confirms that. The papers that were in the boat from the surveys are still in the folder, its not rocket science, again, as Neil said!
Stu

I am not arguing with you. I just have a different opinion from you based on direct experience of preparing private yachts for charter., something I did for 5 years, with lots of owners boat under charter management. You are not wrong but there is a bit more to it than ticking a box and it did cost owners money to bring their boats up to the standard applicable when I did this.

I dont get where the 'as usual' comes from as I do not think you and I really converse on much in any forum.

 

[Tranona]

You seem to be determined to turn this in to an argument! As usual!
I put the FACTS on here as evidenced by my boat when I bought it, Most of the stuff on it was put there as a box ticking exercise. Neil_y confirms that. The papers that were in the boat from the surveys are still in the folder, its not rocket science, again, as Neil said!
Stu

There are no absolutes - it depends on where you are starting from. Many cruising boats already have the required equipment and the stability calculations approved. It is then just the cost of the survey and any changes the surveyor wants.

However, if you are starting from a basic spec boat then the costs suggested of around £5k are reasonable. My old boat costs about that to get Greek coding which is not too different from MCA.

The OP will only know how much by going through the requirements and assessing the boat he buys against them.

Does not change the view that the costs and ongoing costs to keep it coded are likely to be higher than the money he can earn, so making little or no contribution to his general overheads.

 

[jwilson]

Yes it is essentially a box ticking exercise, but the coding surveyor ticks the boxes not the owner. You can't just fill in a form yourself and get coded. As I said in my earlier post, you could get away with £3,000 for coding: you might even get under £2,000 if the boat was really well equipped to start with. On top of these costs your insurance premium will rocket, you'll need to replace flares, med kit, etc every 2-3 years, and liferafts need annual servicing even if sold as "3 year service" units. Most coded boats used hired rafts, so another annual expense.

 

[steveej]

Thanks everyone for your opinions.

Its not about the money. Im just looking at possible options and maybe spending extra and doing a mini transat campaign makes more sense for what I want to do long term.

I just had an idea about teaching the dark arts of sailing, laying kedge anchors off the dinghy, leaving the boat to go ashore, leaving shore transits made of pebbles etc the stuff no school would ever teach you.

It could work and it would be hardcore, proper seamanship stuff, but wouldnt be an RYA school. I think I would lose money rather than gain any advantage.

 

[choppy]

As another take we count on about 5k for MCA coding for a decent condition private yacht from scratch. That includes the man hours to advise, arrange and meet various parties involved.
By the time finished boat will be in top condition and bar any cosmetics required ready for charter.

 

[steveej]

Yeah, 5k, at a revenue stream of say £75 quid per passenger day = 70 passenger days not including wear and tear, insurance, hassle etc. just to break even. I could probably do all the survey recommendations, hatches changed around etc myself for half that = 35 days not including the extras.

I have a full time job that pays for my sailing so this would just be a sideline. Doesn't seem viable to me, so best choose a different sailing project