Correcting Paper Charts

[Miles]

What do people do about correcting paper charts ? After just over a year I have 5 leisure folios and around 15 individual charts. Downloading all the NM's for each chart creates a huge set of corrections most of which are very minor changes to the chart and which is taking days to inscribe on each chart.

How much does it cost to get someone to do it for you ? How many people actually keep their charts completely up to date ? Do people replace their charts at regular intervals ?

Would be interested in views. I know what the textbooks say but I'm interested in what people actually do and in practical solutions to the task.

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[jeanne]

The usual thing is to correct charts by hand without fail for the first three years or so, then try to keep up for a year or so. This will show what the average correction is about, ie, depth corrections affecting super tankers, and changes to port operations areas. Then adopt a supicious outlook, which assumes that all information is fallible, and nothing is to be relied upon completely. This is based on the theory that you are paying for your own charts. If someone else is paying, only the latest will do.
If you pay for them to be corrected by a chart agent, they will cancell them anyway if there are four or more corrections.
I have got myself into all sorts of problems in the past thirty years [make that the last thirty hours] but I cannot think of one that I could have avoided by having better charts.

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[webcraft]

Most charts I sail with are at least ten years old and uncorrected.

In W. Scotland I have never had the slightest problem - rocks tend to stay in the same place, and very little else happens.

Crossing the Thames Estuary last year with 10 yr old charts much of the bouyage had changed, but it still made sense and we survived unscathed and unsurprised even though our echo sounder was U/S

A caveat - this devil may care attitude is helped by always having more than one GPS set on board while remembering that many UK charts are compiled from data far less accurate than post-SA GPS

- Nick

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[tom52]

Folios are a pain in the bum to correct because each sheet is a composite of several different charts.
It took me several hours to correct a new Solent Leisure Folio 2003 edition with changes up to 03/03 !
I do not expect I will do it again and in future I will work on the basis the rocks do not move and everything else should be treated with suspicion

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[paulrossall]

Admiralty update system must have been designed by a woman (as there not logical)

I wont buy Admiralty charts anymore. I buy Stanfords who have a brilliant web-site-update-system which lists the corrections by chart. The Imray update system (web site) works the same. It is a doddle to update either Stanford or Imray chsrts.
Who ever is responsible for corrections to Admiralty charts should be sacked (IMHO) as having correct charts could be a life or death situation and the updates should be easy to do like their competitors.

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[NDG]

Re: Admiralty update system must have been designed by a woman (as there not logical)

Having started to correct a number of sc folios and other charts, I have now given up. THe admiralty system is a nightmare - completely unusable!

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[Twister_Ken]

Phew!

>THe admiralty system is a nightmare - completely unusable! <

Thanks for that - I thought it was just me.

I'd come to the - probably completey erroneous - conclusion that it was designed that way to make us buy new charts more frequently.

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[kindredspirit]

I presume you're downloading from
<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.nmwebsearch.com/>http://www.nmwebsearch.com/</A>

I don't have a problem. Just put in your chart number each month (or 3 months) and only use the material which you deem relevant.

A lot is irrelevant, so I ignore it. I just put in lights, buoy and marina changes generally.

Kevin.

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[paulrossall]

Re: Use Imray or Stanfords web sites

I did update one Admiralty chart by useing the Stanfords web site. It is just a matter of looking at the list of corrections in the area you are interested in and applying them to your charts. As they come as a list you can look down the list before you start and cross off the items which change frequently, ie. ifa bouy is listed at bottom of list as being in a certain position, you do not need to plot all the other places is has been over the past few months.
I believe in supporting the people who try to support you and that is why I wont buy Admiralty.

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[dickh]

Re: Admiralty update system must have been designed by a woman (as there not logical)

I also do not use Admiralty charts as A0 I find them difficult to read with lots of info of no interest. I've used Stanfords for years now, very easy to down load the corrections from their website(<A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.allweathercharts.co.uk>http://www.allweathercharts.co.uk</A>) as paulrossal says.
I renew them when they bring out a new edition, usually every 3/4 years. And when you order them direct from Stanfords they arrrive corrrected to date.
By far the best charts for my area - Thames Estuary area.

<hr width=100% size=1>dickh
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[Birdseye]

Re: Admiralty update system must have been designed by a woman (as there not logical)

no - the admiralty system was not designed by a woman. its the product of the civil service mentality, where caution and the avoidance of mistakes are valued more than speed and customer responsiveness.

they say that they will have a new system mid year which will allow you to quiz it by chart number and receive all the updates for that chart since it was originally printed. bet they dont make the deadline.

mind you, the very low level of wingeing on this subject reflects the very low level of chart updating.



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[Guest]

Re: Admiralty update system must have been designed by a woman (as there not logical)

Could it be that the low level of whinging actually reflects the low levels of expectation in nice Mr.Blair's brave new Britain? - Chart Corrections,Railways, Roads,NHS,Crime,Education,Armed Forces Overstretch..........

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[DeeGee]

You don't use SC Portfolios then.

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[NDG]

My point exactly. If you are only updating 1 or 2 charts its probably a doddle. However, SC Folios are a nightmare - I've got about 5 SC Folios, each of which contains about 10 "chartlets", each of which is compiled from 3 or 4 parent charts, each of which has 10 or 20 corrections to apply. I reckon that could equal 5x10x4x20 corrections. Whats your maths like?

Its mind boggling - there are potentially thousands of corrections to search through, and i know only a few are relevant to the likes of us but the point is you have to look at each one before you can tell whether its for supertankers or yachts.

Me, I'm not bothering with any Admiralty charts ever again - I'm going to stick with Imray or Stanfords.

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[DeeGee]

I am in same boat (he he) and have 5xxxx 4 or 5 times over. I have only used some dozen or so, regarding their purchase as an investment. Keeping them up to date is just not on. I haven't bothered, having realised the enormity of the task, and just assume that an extra buoy may be out there, or a buoy may have gone or been moved. I have boat's GPS and two handhelds, and I hope the rocks and shoreline haven't moved in the last couple of years. I am certainly not going to replace them with Stanford's or Imray just so correcting is easier!! Anyway, all my charts have been scanned in to my PC for passage planning, so I don't want to repeat that exercise.

If some Jonah is going to point out just how dangerous is my attitude, don't bother, as I take it for granted that there just may be some circumstance where it could create a problem - I''ll deal with it when the time comes, that's what sailing is all about.

<hr width=100% size=1>Black Sugar - the sweetest of all

 

[kindredspirit]

No, I don't think there are any small craft portfolios for Ireland.

I just have about 20 of the ordinary Admiralty charts and I actually find it a doddle to update from their site. Just put in the chart number and the date that I last updated it at. Obviously the SC folios are a different kettle of fish. Glad I don't have them!

I have 4 Imray ones as well but I've actually never updated these. Oh! Dear!

Kev.

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[Observer]

If you can't be bothered to do it yourself, Stanfords will update their charts for you at about £1 a go.

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[duncan]

What's a paper chart?
What do you use them for?
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[EdEssery]

Re: Phew!

Thorough it may be but usable it isn't.

Last season I spent many hours updating my three Small Craft folios (all new at the beginning of the season). About a month ago I spent a boring evening cross referencing the charts and then pulling all the corrections off the Admiralty site. When I then sat down to correct the charts most of the corrections were not relevant or off the edges of the the actual charts in the Folio. I gave up.

I think the Admiralty may be making it deliberately difficult so that we all buy new folios every 18 months.

Generally I prefer the Admiraly charts (personal prefererence) but am seriously thinking of switching back to Imray who I used to use 10-15 years ago. Later this year the I'm going to the Channel Islands and need to buy charts. I hate to think of the corrections I'd need to apply if I bought the current Admiralty folio which is 18 to 24 months old already and the next edition is not due to next year (I guess they're switching it to WGS84).

The thoroughness of the update process is making the process too difficult to use resulting in many not bothering to update and or change chart suppliers.

Too difficult to update = lost customer in my case.

Ed

Skybird - MG C27 - Solent

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[whisper]

Re: Phew!

I agree that by choice I would use Admiralty charts far more often than I do if they were as simple to update as Imray's. I've about 25 Imray ones and about 8 Admiralty ones. Imray send me a list of corrections by fax or e-mail every quarter and I select what of the supplied info I need to take notice of. Actually I have to admit that I even enjoy doing most of the correcting work even though it can take a long time. I'd certainly rather be doing this than watching the telly especially during the Winter when it keeps the memory of boating, alive.

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