cork vs teak?

[vas]

it's been almost a whole week without me asking something new, so here comes but don't flame!

discussing with a couple of very experienced (unlike me!) boaters down here they were both against teak decks plainly on the grounds of being too hot to walk barefoot under the July and August med sun. They both suggested I should use cork instead.

Bearing in mind that I hate wearing shoes/crocks/whatever during summer and definitely not on a boat, I'm a bit worried...

Since I do have old structural teak planks (anyway, the thick proper thing) on my decks that according to the previous owner failed and are now covered with 12-15mm marine ply I was planning to glue 6-7mm 50mm wide teak veneer (so they call it here unless its 20+mm thick) with proper sika seams et al.

So, I did check the seacork option (french site with awful en translation) and the material looks okayish, although I need to do a lot of studying first. For starters it does seem easy to fit, trim, etc so that's a plus! Hardwearing, no idea!
Before I spend more time investigating, any opinions on cork?

I could use a combo of cork for the bow and sidewalks and teak for the aft deck (which is 80% covered from the f/b overhang anyway) and f/b decking (which is going to be covered eventually with a canopy a la MM boat)

so, opinions plz!

cheers

V.

 

[mbird]

Never heard of seacork before, but isn't cork generally very soft by it's very nature?

 

[Tranona]

The market leader (I think) is a Dutch company www.marinedeck.net which has been around for a long time. Not sure whether it overcomes the heat problem, but it is cheaper than real teak, better looking than the plastic stuff and seems to be durable.

Guapa who posts on PBO and Scuttlebutt has it on his 43 footer, replacing a rotten teak on ply deck and is very enthusiastic. He has posted lots of information and pictures of it being fitted and sure if you PM him he will let you have his views.

 

[rafiki_]

V, I think a pair of flippies will be the easiest solution!! You can kick them off when the teak cools down. I should imagine cork will be a nightmare to keep clean.

We had cork tiles in our kitchen in our first house about 100 years ago. Only kept them for a couple of months as they were horrible. Went the same way as the avocado bathroom.

 

[BartW]

I think I would do everything possible for restoring the original planks,
are you really really sure this is not possible ?

no experience myselft with cork, but on a wooden boat I would expect a wooden floor,
everything else would look after market imho

 

[vas]

I think I would do everything possible for restoring the original planks,
are you really really sure this is not possible ?

Bart I agree with you.

To be perfectly honest, looking at the planks of teak from inside, they look OK.
I can also see that bolting down the marine ply on top the planks are full of holes that are all over the place.

I guess I could try and remove some of the marine ply (hope it's not also glued as well as bolted on!) and see how the topside looks like.

Getting the maths right:
boat is 35yo
marineply and the godawful vinyl glued on top is around 12-13yo.
That leaves original teak to 20+years young just over puberty and onto real life...

I have a feeling that when the teak started leaking instead of sanding, cutting new grooves and chalking the previous owner just slapped the ply and vinyl on top

I guess It would be worth trying to remove some of the ply and see what's underneath. However I don't want to end up with a cheese like texture on the teak as I don't think holes on teak (even from 3.5mm ss woodscrews) disappear just like that when you remove them
So what do I do? I have to:

• Unbolt 10K 3.5mm screws and remove 15sqm of marine ply
• "Excavate" 10K original teak deck screw heads to bolt them further in
• fill in another 10K 3.5mm holes?
• sand the lot
• cut grooves
• chaulk it
• go to the physiotherapist to get my back in shape (so I can use the boat the following year if I'm lucky and still have a back...)

Happy to be wrong on that as I'd really like to just revive the original thing.

Anyone done something similar?

@Tranona thanks for the link this material looks really good, hardwearing and easy to work with.

@rafiki I know how you feel... That was my first idea when these guys mentioned cork. Having said that this marinedeck looks OK.

I also have another cunning plan that I've mentioned before but noone commented on it:
Use the boat BMS (ok thats building management system) that I'll install to run a seawater pump over a few irrigation type sprayheads to wet/cool the teak deck. Dead easy to incorporate in the sidewalls of the sundeck on the bow.

[hm, edit to mention that this could be easily implemented with a timer and temp sensor to alter the time and intervals run according to ext conditions but it could keep the deck nice and wet with sea water with no effort whatsoever.
Mind that will work only when we're onboard and NOT in the marina as I'd not like to spray all the **** from the stale marina water on my teak ]

I'm worried that none has ever mentioned something like that so I guess I'm missing something important

cheers

V.

 

[BartW]

I guess I could try and remove some of the marine ply (hope it's not also glued as well as bolted on!) and see how the topside looks like.

thats the first step, try to remove 1 m2,
and then make new observations , investigations , and then decide how to go on...
I have got a very comprehensive article about teac restoring from Jfm,
I'll send it when apropriate,

about your irrigation system,
you don't want that on a 35yo boat

you want to know something, one of my favourite jobs on board is rinsing the boat,
and spraying with fresh water everywhere (in hot sunchine)

apart from that, I never had a real problem with too hot teak / wear slippers when really needed.
we have quite a few m2's of it.


about fresh water maker,
With our Karnic in Croatia, I fancyed many times having a water maker on board, as we spend many nights on anker, and fresh water in marina's is usually "expensive" over there.
but looking back, actually we managed very well, sometimes carry-ing buckets of water from the town well
so after all the water maker would have been useless spending, and most of all, lost of valuable space onboard.

last season on BA, we ran the water maker only ones, just to try it,
we were in a marine at least every two day's, so could fill the water tanks,
I know the reassuring feeling to be able to stay many day's offshore,
but I could do without it.

don't know the situation with availability of fresh water for boats in greece though.

 

[rafiki_]

V, I guess you use bottle water to drink on board, as I expect the hose water is non potable. To be honest, we don't drink the water from Rafiki's tank, as it tastes a bit nasty after a couple of days.

 

[jfm]

V
What about removing the plywood and vinyl, and then gluing fresh 6mm teak decking on top of the old teak planks. The black glue from the new deck would fill the 10k 3.5mm holes. you'd save the weight of the plywood. It's an expensive solution of course; the 6mm sheets would be €5k kinda thing, from suppliers like www.wattsons.co.uk

The hot deck thing is exaggerated imho. I never found it a prob. You can just sloosh some water on the decks in the hot afternoon sun if you want to

 

[vas]

V
What about removing the plywood and vinyl, and then gluing fresh 6mm teak decking on top of the old teak planks. The black glue from the new deck would fill the 10k 3.5mm holes. you'd save the weight of the plywood. It's an expensive solution of course; the 6mm sheets would be €5k kinda thing, from suppliers like www.wattsons.co.uk

The hot deck thing is exaggerated imho. I never found it a prob. You can just sloosh some water on the decks in the hot afternoon sun if you want to

what do you recon are the chances of restoring and reusing the old original teak?

I mean, assuming it's solid, is it viable to use some special filler with teak grain in it to seal the various holes and cut grooves etc? Or will I always be able to see the various holes and be annoyed every time I walk to the bow?

I'm obviously exaggerating on the 10k holes, probably around 10-15screws per sqm, so couple of hundred holes to sort out If you remember my original plan was to remove the marine ply and work on top of the original teak in order to save on weight as well as keeping it more original, but I'm worried that I'll spend some serious amount of time and end up in square zero and may have to resort to relaying ply and I DON'T want that for sure!

I guess I'll have a go at the port side of the bow where I've removed the vinyl and see if I can lift a few pieces of ply. So suntan time this w/e!

Also could I have your opinion on my soon_to_be_patented seawater sprayjet system (SSS for short ) for the gunwales and f/b deck jfm plz? I still find it a brilliant idea (if I can ever get jets that wont clog with salt that is...)

V.

 

[jfm]

what do you recon are the chances of restoring and reusing the old original teak?

I mean, assuming it's solid, is it viable to use some special filler with teak grain in it to seal the various holes and cut grooves etc? Or will I always be able to see the various holes and be annoyed every time I walk to the bow?

I'm obviously exaggerating on the 10k holes, probably around 10-15screws per sqm, so couple of hundred holes to sort out If you remember my original plan was to remove the marine ply and work on top of the original teak in order to save on weight as well as keeping it more original, but I'm worried that I'll spend some serious amount of time and end up in square zero and may have to resort to relaying ply and I DON'T want that for sure!

I guess I'll have a go at the port side of the bow where I've removed the vinyl and see if I can lift a few pieces of ply. So suntan time this w/e!

Also could I have your opinion on my soon_to_be_patented seawater sprayjet system (SSS for short ) for the gunwales and f/b deck jfm plz? I still find it a brilliant idea (if I can ever get jets that wont clog with salt that is...)

V.

I honestly don't think you'll hide the holes. Even if they were clean, they are gonna be visible on bare wood, but they might well have black staining too. They would even be a challenge in varnished wood. Alas, it just wont work imho.

Bit of a crime by previous owner to do it, imho, but that's water under the bridge now

Glued on 6mm teak would be great, and only 2 days work approx. Prob is, it is so frightfully expensive. I must take a look at Essex Boatyards. They have some large pieces just hanging around from cancelled orders. With a few slight compromises regarding joints, maybe 6 pieces could be found that would fit together like a jigsaw. I'll look next time i'm there...

SSS is nice technology but wasted on decks imo. I'd prefer a water mist by the poledancing pole. Or champagne. Cristal wont clog the jets for sure

Nice dashboard job on MiToS btw

 

[jhr]

There's a poster called Guapa, who is mostly to be found on the East Coast Forum. Iirc, he went through this process with his boat and - I *think* - ended up using cork. His boat has a curious pole sticking up in the middle, that he uses to dry washing of some kind, but I guess his experiences are no less valid for all that

 

[ripvan1]

Why can't you just plug the holes making the plugs yourself, rake out old caulking and recaulk - jobs done - at not much mucho dinero compared to redecking.

As mentioned teak does get hot but it's not a big deal with a pair of flips, a quick hose mid-afternoon helps

 

[vas]

funny how you read a thread you started a year ago, hoping to "salvage" what turning out to be a lost case (talking about repairing the decks in MiToS before finally replacing the lot over the summer )

anyway to avoid starting yet another thread, I'll continue this one.

Today bought "a few" bits of teak (2 2.20m pieces 150X52mm and 2 150X27mm)
Idea is that I'll check my options in cutting them and getting decent size sections for my deck.
First Q: what is the TYPICAL width of teak deck in a mobo considering fitting it straight along the longitudinal axis and not struggling to curve it round? is 45-48mm OK or should I go for less??? Currently in Athens so cannot measure my aft deck (which looks fine to my eye)

Further, following a long discussion with the owner (v.knowledgeable guy holding a PhD from Stanford on material science ) regarding laying with wood the cabin and salon, he recommended cedar. He explained that it's much lighter than teak, excelent in water, structurally similarly strong and only misses in the fact that it's softer and marks easier/easily compared to teak. He's talking of high heels small sharp pointy things marking it. TBH, it should be safe from all that, so picked up a piece to test and see how it looks and feels. Was thinking unless there are some serious objections to use it in the salon and possibly in the f/b where extra weight is an issue and I'd rather have a thicker, lighter cedar rather than a thinner heavier teak.

opinions?

cheers

V.

 

[jfm]

45-48mm is perfect for mitos. you definitely don't want less imho

 

[tomcourtney]

Hi Vas
Here is a thread with good info on cork, I am considering Marine Deck 2000 on my Dutch Steel.
http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/materials/cork-decks-9757.html

Some quotes from the thread which caught my attention.

"elastic, softer, warm in winter, cold in the summer, 7 times better temperature insulating"
"a deck 10 Year warranty"
"tried to scratch it with a nail without success"

 

[alant]

it's been almost a whole week without me asking something new, so here comes but don't flame!

discussing with a couple of very experienced (unlike me!) boaters down here they were both against teak decks plainly on the grounds of being too hot to walk barefoot under the July and August med sun. They both suggested I should use cork instead.

Bearing in mind that I hate wearing shoes/crocks/whatever during summer and definitely not on a boat, I'm a bit worried...

Since I do have old structural teak planks (anyway, the thick proper thing) on my decks that according to the previous owner failed and are now covered with 12-15mm marine ply I was planning to glue 6-7mm 50mm wide teak veneer (so they call it here unless its 20+mm thick) with proper sika seams et al.

So, I did check the seacork option (french site with awful en translation) and the material looks okayish, although I need to do a lot of studying first. For starters it does seem easy to fit, trim, etc so that's a plus! Hardwearing, no idea!
Before I spend more time investigating, any opinions on cork?

I could use a combo of cork for the bow and sidewalks and teak for the aft deck (which is 80% covered from the f/b overhang anyway) and f/b decking (which is going to be covered eventually with a canopy a la MM boat)

so, opinions plz!

cheers

V.

How reliable is the 'glue' in a hot climate?

 

[MapisM]

any opinions on cork?

Vas, I've only seen now your request.
My only first hand experience was being onboard a steel boat (which was about 10yo at the time) whose decks were covered with this stuff:
http://www.marinedeck.net/
And all I can say is that from a functional viewpoint, it's MILES ahead of teak, in each and every respect - durability, heat absorption, slippery-ness when wet, "feeling" when walking on it. In fact (at least till some years ago), it was also as expensive as teak, if not more.
Otoh, from an aesthetic viewpoint, it does shout "fake", which I guess is the main reason why teak is still preferred by most boaters.
Which is definitely a case of form over function, particularly on GRP boats, where a properly made non skid GRP surface is better than teak in most respects.
Anyway, 'fiuaskme, I'd rather have that stuff than teak any day also on a timber boat.
In a sense, even more so on a timber boat, where the decks impermeability is critical.
I have no idea about the feasibility/pros/cons of laying it above an existing teak deck, though.

 

[gjgm]

I might have this wrong, but I think Windy produced a few boats with cork in their eco mode...you could ask Ben at Berthon if he ever heard how that went....

 

[vas]

teak slice thickness Q

45-48mm is perfect for mitos. you definitely don't want less imho

and yet another year later, another related Q
I guess since I'm the OP I don't have to apologize to anyone, just trying to keep relevant threads together for future reference.

So, I'm about to slice the pieces of teak Ι bought last year!
My first attempt at gluing teak will be at the small pieces of flooring for the heads. They are removable so will be done in controlled conditions at Georges' workshop and probably pressed in his large press that he uses for doors and such.

Q: do I slice the teak beams (50X180X2000) at 6 or 7 or 8mm thick?

I'll try and source the glue that you recommended (last time I tried to find it was import from the States though...) and obviously sand it afterwards for a uniform thickness feel with one of these special sanding angle grinder things (what around 300mm in dia and featuring a lip all around to keep the thing flat)

I'd be tempted to go for 7 so that I have at least a decade to do a few sandings before it disappears, but would be happy with 6mm if its considered enough for two-three sandings.

cheers

V.