CopperCoat with weedkiller

[Stingo]

Was nattering with an American cruiser and the topic of CopperCoat came up. I'm a huge fan of CC, btw.

With the epoxy that the copper powder is suspended in being waterbased, he asked if adding a waterbased weedkiller to the mix might help prevent the growth of weed that is CC's only downfall. Hmm, a good question, me thinks?

What does the panel think?

 

[NormanS]

I thought that the whole idea of Copper Coat, was that it stopped weed from growing on the bottom of the boat. If it doesn't do that, what is it for?

 

[Stingo]

I thought that the whole idea of Copper Coat, was that it stopped weed from growing on the bottom of the boat. If it doesn't do that, what is it for?

It stops the barnacles and similar marine organisms from attaching themselves.

 

[Charlie Boy]

And given that weed killer is by definition a biocide, it’s amost certainly illegal

 

[Stingo]

Is Roundup illegal?

 

[Daydream believer]

It stops the barnacles and similar marine organisms from attaching themselves.

You have been reading the literature. Chuck it away & ask the owners. Then try posting your findings.

 

[gaylord694]

And given that weed killer is by definition a biocide, it’s amost certainly illegal

There's a few people in the yard I'm in where they put industrial strength weed killer and 1lb of copper filings in with there seajet antifoul . .. I've never seen such clean bottoms on boats after a season

 

[AntarcticPilot]

Weedkillers such as RoundUp operate on higher plants ONLY; they are very specific and don't work on algae, bacteria, or other things that attach to our boats' bottoms. Their idea is to kill weeds and not crops! They have little or no effect on anything in the animal kingdom. So it is very unlikely that it would have any effect. The other thing is that homebrews such as the OP describes are illegal in the UK and EU; the formulation of things like antifoul is subject to licensing and has to follow environmental legislation.

I'll say it again, but effective antifouling is a BIG economic issue. Not for our benefit, but for commercial shipping, port facilities, oil and gas installations and many, many more marine systems where downtime to remove fouling loses a LOT of money. Most of what we have access to is trickled down from the big boys. And there is active research going on to try and produce more effective systems. The "slippery" antifouls that are effective for motor boats and high speed sailing boats are such.

 

[gaylord694]

Weedkillers such as RoundUp operate on higher plants ONLY; they are very specific and don't work on algae, bacteria, or other things that attach to our boats' bottoms. Their idea is to kill weeds and not crops! They have little or no effect on anything in the animal kingdom. So it is very unlikely that it would have any effect. The other thing is that homebrews such as the OP describes are illegal in the UK and EU; the formulation of things like antifoul is subject to licensing and has to follow environmental legislation.

I'll say it again, but effective antifouling is a BIG economic issue. Not for our benefit, but for commercial shipping, port facilities, oil and gas installations and many, many more marine systems where downtime to remove fouling loses a LOT of money. Most of what we have access to is trickled down from the big boys. And there is active research going on to try and produce more effective systems. The "slippery" antifouls that are effective for motor boats and high speed sailing boats are such.

Well there's always industrial strength antifoul which is readily available from certain places .. Personally seajet does the trick

 

[gaylord694]

And given that weed killer is by definition a biocide, it’s amost certainly illegal

Weed killer isn't illegal,people use it all the time on there gardens you can actually buy it in Sainsbury's

 

[greeny]

Back to the original post. CC is expensive! Like Stingo, I am a strong advocate of its use. Why on earth would you modify the mix when it works as it is, and then risk the whole lot falling off or becoming ineffective. The mind boggles. The small amount of weed that does gather in my experience, comes off with a brush if necessary but really doesn't slow the boat down to any degree.

 

[gaylord694]

Back to the original post. CC is expensive! Like Stingo, I am a strong advocate of its use. Why on earth would you modify the mix when it works as it is, and then risk the whole lot falling off or becoming ineffective. The mind boggles. The small amount of weed that does gather in my experience, comes off with a brush if necessary but really doesn't slow the boat down to any degree.

I think the point being is that not everyone can afford CC at £3021 so I suppose you can see why people try additional remidees.. Like I've said industrial strength antifoul for commercial shipping is readily available so why you'd want to try untested formula's is a mystery

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Back to the original post. CC is expensive! Like Stingo, I am a strong advocate of its use. Why on earth would you modify the mix when it works as it is, and then risk the whole lot falling off or becoming ineffective. The mind boggles. The small amount of weed that does gather in my experience, comes off with a brush if necessary but really doesn't slow the boat down to any degree.

Mine weeds up to a moderate degree. Not significantly worse than an eroding antifoul, but enough to really screw our performance. I scrub as often as possible in summer, and certainly before racing. The advantage for me is that future performance isn’t affected by scrubbing, and it lasts for years. All other antifouls are degraded considerably with every scrub, and we never got more than 6 months out of them.

 

[ylop]

I think the point being is that not everyone can afford CC at £3021 so I suppose you can see why people try additional remidees.. Like I've said industrial strength antifoul for commercial shipping is readily available so why you'd want to try untested formula's is a mystery

How much of the CC cost is in the copper though? Much of it must be in the epoxy and the prep, conditions and labour required to apply it. So swapping the copper for an untested weed killer is unlikely to be cost efficient. Obviously supplementing the copper with another agent would save no money but risk stopping the copper working!

 

[Chiara’s slave]

I think the point being is that not everyone can afford CC at £3021 so I suppose you can see why people try additional remidees.. Like I've said industrial strength antifoul for commercial shipping is readily available so why you'd want to try untested formula's is a mystery

Possibly because it’s illegal to use commercial antifoul on a leisure craft, and also anyone with the slightest conscience about the marine environment wouldn’t use it. Personally, I would shop anyone I knew to be using it.

 

[Minerva]

How much of the CC cost is in the copper though? Much of it must be in the epoxy and the prep, conditions and labour required to apply it. So swapping the copper for an untested weed killer is unlikely to be cost efficient. Obviously supplementing the copper with another agent would save no money but risk stopping the copper working!

Copper coat is just epoxy and copper isn't it? Presumably fairly straight forward to make a "home-brew" version with reputable brand epoxy and copper powder

 

[gaylord694]

Possibly because it’s illegal to use commercial antifoul on a leisure craft, and also anyone with the slightest conscience about the marine environment wouldn’t use it. Personally, I would shop anyone I knew to be using

Mine weeds up to a moderate degree. Not significantly worse than an eroding antifoul, but enough to really screw our performance. I scrub as often as possible in summer, and certainly before racing. The advantage for me is that future performance isn’t affected by scrubbing, and it lasts for years. All other antifouls are degraded considerably with every scrub, and we never got more than 6 months out of them.

Oh without a doubt it's totally possible to scrub a 20 ft boat like yours and keep on top of it I bet it's lovely not having slime etc on the bottom and I bet you get an extra knot or extra and it looks nicer as well .... . Unfortunately I'm not so mobile these days so I'm a little limited to scrubbing time

 

[Hot Property]

Weedkillers such as RoundUp operate on higher plants ONLY; they are very specific and don't work on algae, bacteria, or other things that attach to our boats' bottoms. Their idea is to kill weeds and not crops! They have little or no effect on anything in the animal kingdom. So it is very unlikely that it would have any effect. The other thing is that homebrews such as the OP describes are illegal in the UK and EU; the formulation of things like antifoul is subject to licensing and has to follow environmental legislation.

I'll say it again, but effective antifouling is a BIG economic issue. Not for our benefit, but for commercial shipping, port facilities, oil and gas installations and many, many more marine systems where downtime to remove fouling loses a LOT of money. Most of what we have access to is trickled down from the big boys. And there is active research going on to try and produce more effective systems. The "slippery" antifouls that are effective for motor boats and high speed sailing boats are such.

Silic One from Hemel works for me. I'm in my 5 th season with it.

Great for planing hulls capable of 20 kits plus. Apart from a bit of waterline slime the rest of the hull is as clean as a whistle.

On yachts it will gather slime but it's easy to wipe off with a soft cloth.

 

[ylop]

Copper coat is just epoxy and copper isn't it? Presumably fairly straight forward to make a "home-brew" version with reputable brand epoxy and copper powder

If it were as simple as that:

1. I’d have expected more (successful) copy cat products.
2. People wouldn’t seem to have such difficulty getting it to work.
3. The yards applying it wouldn’t go to such lengths to control humidity etc (see point 2)

So I assume there is optimisation required for the copper particle size, the epoxy formulation/mix to ensure it stays dispersed, etc.

I got a quote for applying CC. The material wasn’t the expensive bit!

 

[Farmer Piles]

Being a farmer, evidently, we use all sorts of weed sprays. Some species specific and some not. The only one that is broad brush is glyphosate - Roundup. It will kill any plant, it is absorbed by the leaf or green parts and translocated down to the roots. It's why it is so effective.
Apart from any ethical issues I wouldn't mix it with CC or antifoul. The active ingredient comes within a specifically formulated mix that is designed for mixing with water and spraying on plants. It contains adjuvants and surficants to aid spread and absorption, Monsanto spent many millions perfecting this in the same way that CC and antifoul manufacturers have on their products - why mix the two?