Coppercoat epoxy antifouling

[HarveyBigg]

I am planning a circumnavigation in a new boat and am thinking about having Coppercoat applied in the hope that a can avoid the tedious annual scrub and repaint. My plan would be to put on a scuba tank and clean a bit at a time.

The company boasts a good product, but can anyone tell me if the product is up to the rigorous requirements and fouling of tropical waters? Does anyone out there have experience of this?

Regards

Harvey Bigg

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[AndrewB]

Try a search ...

There have been a number of threads in the last year about 'Coppercoat', 'Copperbot', 'Copperguard'. Opinions are mixed, some users are very pleased, others say that these products are overhyped and not cost-effective. I'm not sure if there is much on use in tropical waters though.

My guess is this system would work well with your idea of diving to scrub the hull clean when at anchorage in tropical waters, specially to remove goose barnacles. You do see people dive in to scrub eroding antifouling, but swimming in antifouling soup doesn't seem like much of a good idea.

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[HarveyBigg]

Re: Try a search ...

Many thanks for your input. I'll hope for some specifics about use in the tropics.
Cheers
Harvey Bigg

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[boatmike]

This is one I have some experience of from my days with Vosper Thornycroft and other companies.
These products are a low grade epoxy to which either raw copper or a copper derivative have been added in various quantities. They work up to a point but because of the copper content they do not provide protection from osmosis like say Gelshield does and do not provide antifouling protection as well as a properly formulated "self polishing" or even "hard racing" antifouling as the surface does not break down to expose new copper in a controlled fashion.
If you want a "scrubbable" antifouling try Trilux 33. It will perform equally well and is a lot cheaper. For a long term afloat solution my own boat has 6 coats (yes 6!) of Gelshield (alternating colours between coats for full cover) Followed by 2 coats of Trilux with 3 coats of self polishing co-polymer on top of a different colour.
The principle being that the co-polymer will do its job for at least one year on the move possibly 2 depending on location and how much you keep moving. (Most fouling taking place when stationary at anchor) As it eventually wears off, if you have not hauled out by then, the Trilux will show through and if you get fouling you can give it a scrub without going through to the upholstery! Not while swimming in the water though as it is highly toxic! Underneath it all you have a good osmosis barrier which is a really good idea if you don't haul out each year.
One other alternative is to use silicone based antifoul that works by creating a slippery surface rather than poisoning. This is expensive to apply, but tends to work very well on larger power craft. Unfortunately unless you are fortunate enough to be able to sail at 15 knots it tends to foul. Above that speed it is self cleaning. In other words no good for sailboats.
Hope this helps.
I have used this system to good effect in the past and when the boat has had any time at anchor I have found that 2 or 3 days sailing has cleared the slime. If it doesn't a light wipe with a sponge in between tides is all that is necessary.
Of course no one could guarantee results as it depends entirely on the area you sail in, your hull form, how long your passages are, how long at rest and speed through the water. The system will however give you better hull protection and less scrubbing than coppercoat under all conditions in my opinion.
Hope this helps.
Mike

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[HarveyBigg]

Very many thanks for your lengthy suggestions. You confirm the niggly doubts I had - particularly about the permeability of the epoxy. Actually, I am familiar with Gelshield having applied it to m y last boat.

You suggest Trilux. I see this is an International product. What about Interspeed Ultra ? International say:-

No longer just extra strong, a new improved formula makes this superior antifouling ultra strong. Containing Teflon it provides a smoother harder more slippery surface which deters fouling attachment for a clean, slick hull.
It is ideal for high speed crafts or crafts on drying moorings. Can be burnished.
Thinners No.3

750ml [£30.95], 2.5 Litre [£87.95 ]

This seems to have extra strength. What do you think??

many thanks again

Harvey Bigg


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[boatmike]

Oh dear!
I must be careful to discern between opinion and fact here.
Facts first.
Teflon has a number of excellent properties. It is highly heat resistant and slippery.
Great for space craft and frying pans. I also believe they coat £20 notes with it...... Thats why I cant hold on to them for long.....Adding it to a conventional antifouling in small quantities is questionable as we don't get our bottoms hot (sic) and as a "component" of an antifoul rather than a baked on layer like a frying pan it won't perform the same. It will also make the coating difficult to overcoat with anything other than the same product and very difficult to remove if you decide you don't like it. This is also true of Silicone.
Opinion.
It may marginally enhance the performance but is primarily a marketing ploy to get you to think the product is a space age technology and charge you more for it. Ask Internationals marketing department HOW MUCH teflon is in there......
Fact.
You have to chose whether to poison the "wildlife" or create a slippy bottom it can't stick to. So far all attempts to make a slippy bottom require the boat to be moving most of the time at over 12-15 knots to scour away anything that sticks on when you are not moving. Undoubtedly the best of these products are silicone based rather than Teflon. I am not free to say too much but studies done by MoD are believed to confirm this conclusion. The alternative is where you have a drying mooring and can walk around the boat and sponge off the crap in between tides when necessary. Hence the manufacturers note you mentioned.
Opinion.
For a normal sailboat of modest proportions the fouling will build up faster with these products than with a conventional poisonous antifouling and you will NEED to sponge or scrub it regularly. Better to have at least 1 and probably 2 years free of this chore and then either haul out or scrub back to a hard antifouling under the self polishing one if you must. Also I refuse to paint anything on my bottom that I can't get off again.........(?)

There are lots of opinions out there of course. Consider mine with others. I sail a Prout Snowgoose Catamaran. My philosophy works well for me because I can run up any beach and walk around my boat in 3 ft of water maximum and clean it. One of the reasons I sail one. Others would not be seen dead on a multihull. We are all different. Whatever the system you choose though and whatever you sail you can't change the laws of physics (or Biology!) There is no perfect system and no "better mousetrap" Coppercoat, Copperbot, whatever. You have to choose. Whatever you do however, ESPECIALLY if like me you have the luxury of a virgin new boat with a clean bottom (better choose my words carefully here) dont forget to protect with Gelshield or similar first to protect your investment from the dreaded boat pox.........
Hope this helps. It is as I say just an opinion and there will be plenty who will dissagree but I guess thats what these forums are for.
Happy scrubbing!


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[tcm]

Re: Real copper

In warm waters the barnacles are a major problem. Copper resists attack from barnacles, demonstrable by leaving a copper pipe on string in any marina - the string might be barncley but the pipe is clear. I beieve the copper oxide rather than the copper is the key thing. Back in the olden, sailing days boats were sheathed in copper which sometimes cost morethan the cost of the boat.

The modern paints are copper suspensions of one form another of copper, and sometimes it's okay but sometimes not.

But you can simply use self-adhesive copper strips. This should last some years, perhaps five or ten. You just clean off all the antifoul (slurry/sand blast) and stick it on, overlapping where necessary. Dive to replace anodes and to clean weed off (which won't be kept at bay) but you can be sure of no barnacles. contact www.foil-specialists.co.uk for info


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[HarveyBigg]

Re: Real copper

Many thanx for your suggestions which I shall give serious thought.
Good sailing!
Regards
HarveyBigg

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[snowleopard]

practical experience.

i have coppercoat and have spent a season in the caribbean. i found that i did get considerable fouling, largely a calcareous growth which formed a brittle spongy coating. during 6 weeks in the lagoon at st maarten this grew to an inch thick all over. i was able to remove it by snorkelling with a scraper but it took a few hours each time. the results in temperate waters were satisfactory.

my advice is to have the treatment applied professionally and ask for a guarantee as i have had problems of the second coat peeling off the first and the first off the hull despite following the instructions to the letter. contact with the manufacturers produced no response.

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[timevans2000]

Is there anything stopping me from adding a load of copper dust to my International Micron antifouling to increase its effectiveness? I was thinking of doing 4 coats, alternating the layers in different colours and adding additional copper, as I have some available. What do you think?

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[catmandoo]

Re: practical experience.

I too have copper coat and In Sardinia last year where water temperature was 29 degrees i had some fouling but only on some areas where repairs had been done . I intend to haul out this spring and remove some blisters where the coat has come away from the gel coatand reapply .

Generally though all I get apart from Coral and hairy weed on some areas is slime which rubs off . barnacles, coral and rest come off with walpaper scraper easily . I attract fish coming from below feeding on dropping barnacles etc .

Boat in marina on mouth of river . manufacturers say Copper coat not so good in brackish water

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[boatmike]

You may end up cocking up a balanced formula designed to erode at a certain rate. The rate of erosion is one of the key factors in the performance of antifouling. In any case raw copper is not as good as the OXIDES and other by-products of copper used in antifouling. I am not an industrial chemist (actually I am a mechanical engineer who just happens to have spent most of his life in shipbuilding and boatbuilding) but I do know that what is used in high quality antifouling paint is not just ground up copper dust. Don't mess about with things. International generally have a good product that works well. Stick with it.
There is an old saying. If it aint broke dont mend it!

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