Coppercoat advice

[nmeyrick]

Hi all, I'm planning to Coppercoat my 38' GRP sailing boat this year and would appreciate some advice on a couple of points. I don't want to spark off the whole debate about whether or not to Coppercoat, I'm aware there are some strong views but have researched this and decided that for my boat use the advantages make sense. Specifically I'd be grateful if anyone has any advice regarding:

1. Drying out; the boat is currently in the water, I have read that it should be allowed to dry out before treating but I want to keep time ashore as short as possible. Would a week or so out of water be adequate? Also the boat has previously been epoxied below the waterline, does this reduce or remove the need to dry as it is already supposedly impervious?

2. Application conditions - does anyone have any advice regarding conditions at the time of application, eg does it need to be warm, not too warm etc? How critical is this?

3. Blasting - as I have a lot of underwater area and I've heard that surface prep is key, I'm planning to get the hull sand or slurry blasted before painting on the Coppercoat myself. In particular I'm keen that this is done sympathetically enough not to remove the existing epoxy layer. Can anyone recommend a good blaster in the London area? Also can anyone give an idea of what I should expect to pay for this?

All answers much appreciated

 

[snowleopard]

I would strongly advise against applying Coppercoat yourself. If it goes wrong (a not uncommon experience) you have some comeback if it was done professionally. If you DIY you're on your own.

If you are dead set on DIY, first get the manufacturer to supply a formulation that will work in the conditions you expect. I spoke to them and was told that they could make it set almost down to freezing.

For surface preparation they advise de-greasing as well as abrading. My tests have shown that washing with e.g. Acetone does nothing to aid adhesion of resins but if you don't do it they may say you were at fault. Be sure to stick to the instructions to the letter, especially with regard to applying a second coat. It may not prevent problems with adhesion between coats but might improve your case.

I believe there are two processes. One uses copper powder stirred into the resin then rolled on, the other involves applying the resin then spraying the wet surface with the copper. Only the 1st is suitable for DIY use.

 

[silver-fox]

[ QUOTE ]
I would strongly advise against applying Coppercoat yourself. If it goes wrong (a not uncommon experience) ....[ QUOTE ]


I would very interested to learn if you are stating fact or opinion here?

If the former what are the facts?

If the latter, was it first hand experience that shaped your opinion?

I have decided to use Coppercoat this year and am obviously very keen to learn more

 

[flyingscampi]

You must avoid moisture getting near the Coppercoat until it is properly cured (a couple of days in warmer weather). If you're planning on applying it outside the summer months you will need to erect a canopy to protect the hull from rain/dew.

I'd ask AMC for advice regarding your existing coat of epoxy. I'd probably get rid of it to make sure the Coppercoat gets a good bond to the gel coat. It is rather expensive to take a risk with.

 

[bluemoongaffer]

I applied Coppercoat last spring but to a much smaller boat. If I may, I'll give you my thoughts: It took me ages to prep the hull (several weekends) - half way through I wished I'd used a slurry blasting servive. Even if you do use this, I'd allow more time for hull preparation. It's not just the drying out time but if you need to repair any of the epoxy coating you've already got, you need to have time for this to go off before putting on the Coppercoat. Plus, if memory serves, you need at least 5 days after you've applied the Coppercoat before you re-launch. Application on the day: I've done quite a bit of epoxy work and I thought Coppercoat the most difficult of all the epoxies I've used to apply. It was quite tough day to get all four coats done in the day. You need to have a dry, warm day but not very hot (the epoxy seems to go off quite quickly). Best if boat is not in direct sunlight in the middle of the day. Do not apply too early in the day when hull is still cold and perhaps damp and don't plan on working late when dew might settle. Will probably need two of you to get all 4 coats on in the day on such a boat (you may even want to split it so you do one side one day, the other the next). You need plenty of disposable kit - rollers / brushes / measuring beakers, weighing machine, paint mixing sticks etc (I used at least twice as many as I thought I'd need). Keep stirring almost continuously before and during application. First & second (and even third) coats look awful and will make you question whether you've got the right mix etc. It is not tolerant to overcoating while wet (ie if you see a bare patch in an area you've just done, it doesn't really seem to work to try and cover it over - you have to wait until you're on the next coat) Comes right with the fourth coat. Needs sanding down with fine wet and dry just before you re-launch.

Can't help with slurry blasting though.

Hope this helps - there'll probably be a professional along in a moment to give you better / other advice.

Regards

Good luck
Paul

 

[KevB]

I coppercoated my boat about 3 years ago so here's my tips

I can recommend Symblast for the removal of any old covering. Very efficient, good value and clean up after themselves.

It needs to be warm when the coppercoat is applied, above 12 deg I believe.

Many hands make light work - although it's easy to apply, you need to apply the next coat whilst the previous is still tacky. Having a few people rolling on the coppercoat allows you to cover a larger area and still have time to go back and start the next coat.

An old hand held food mixer is good for mixing the copper in with the epoxy.

 

[Sans Bateau]

I cannot advise what you should do, however I am happy to recall the application of Coppercoat to our own 35ftr. Our plan followed your own to some extent.

Our boat was out of the water and had just been surveyed prior to our purchase. The surveyor noted that the hull was particularly dry and long term would benefit from epoxy coating. We needed to remove the old antifoul and arranged for this to be done by a company called Symblast . Steve from this company (I have no connection) was most helpful, he also, as you will see sells Coppercoat. We discussed with him our plan and he sold us ME100 epoxy coating (two coats) and the Coppercoat. He also gave us detailed instructions and advice. I would strongly recommend you speak with him.

Once the blasting work was complete a weekend in March was chosen to do the work, I had help from a friend who had applied Coppercoat before, plus he had had it applied professionally on his most recent boat, more of that later. SWMBO also helped, mixing up the next batch, supplying tea etc, bless her!

First day Sat AM. I arrived at the boat early and went over the hull, taking off the last little bits of AF, then wiped the whole hull down with white spirit, using copious amounts, 'till it ran down my arm, uck! By the time the rest of the team were on site the temp was up to about 10deg, so we set about mixing the ME100, which had been kept at home with the CC to keep the temp up. We used a mixer, as used in the building trade for mixing plaster, it goes in a drill and does a thorough job of mixing the two parts together. Application was with short haired rollers, which were ditched after each application, IE once we got to the other end of the hull, John worked one side, I did the other. After lunch the second coat of ME100 was applied and this took us to an early end to the day. As there was a risk of dew running down the hull we put a 'skirt' of tape on the hull above the ME100 to make the water drip off over the epoxy, are you with me?

We applied the Copper coat on the Sunday, straight over the ME100, which was still a little tacky. We felt that as both the ME100 and the CC was epoxy the CC would stick better. The Sunday was damned hard work, four coats of CC applied one after the other, only stopping for a short lunch break! But we did it!

That was 5 years ago and there is no sign anywhere of the CC peeling away, its there for good!

Johns current boat, launched during the winter had CC from new. As it was a winter launch he had the CC applied professionally. We both feel that the professionals had the temp in their shed to high. It is too hard. CC that he applied himself to the water line (they only applied to the water line and not above it!) is working better than that under the hull. Last year he had to have a major keel repair done. The new keel had CC applied outside by pro's, that also works fine.

Getting prepared

Mixing

The finished job complete with drip skirt which worked!

Relaunch

 

[Sans Bateau]

Spooky! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[nmeyrick]

Thanks for the advice so far, really helpful.

Galadriel some very good tips there; if you are able to post some pics or pm me that would be fantastic

I'll definitely talk to symblast

 

[Sans Bateau]

[ QUOTE ]
if you are able to post some pics

[/ QUOTE ]

Errr, see above? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[snowleopard]

I have two direct experiences of Coppercoat. In my case I got bubbling of the surface. The bubbles were between the coats. I did contact the manufacturers and they said they would come and have a look but they never turned up.

A friend had his boat professionally treated. After 3 years, fouling was growing pretty much as quickly as on an untreated hull. It is being re-done for him.

 

[KevB]

Here are some pics

You should abrade the copper once a year but this can easily be done by picking a nice warm summers day and anchore in a sheltered bay at waist height. With some fine wet and dry jump in and give the copper a gentle rub.

 

[Bandit]

Personally I dont rate it at all.

I see a lot of boats coming out of the water and when you see boats that come out after 12 months with coppercoat or a good antifouling often the growth on the coppercoat is greater/ worse than the antifouling.

The payback is quite long.

There are problems from time to time with bubbling or patches coming off.

I would not have it on my boat.

 

[gavin_lacey]

A few years ago I got it wrong. Despite having made massive use of epoxy in building a boat without problem, I made a mistake in weather forcasting when applying coppercoat. Despite being in a large tent the overnight temp dropped and moisture settled on the surface. The resulting mess took three solid days to remove. Some was soft, waxy and green, Some was hard and looked ok. Mottled. Wax did not remove easily and cloged the abrasives being used on the hard bits. Be warned!

 

[Elessar]

I pulled my boat for coppercoat last year having bought the product at the boat show in Southampton.

I got about an 8th of the antifouling off (and got through of 100 quids worth of stripper) before calling Paul at Symblast as recommended earlier on this thread.

He pointed out something that isn't clear, and this was confirmed by coppercoat when i rang them.

The instructions say application temperature has to be 8deg or above.

The don't say that if it drops below 8deg at any time during the curing process, eg ovenight, then curing will stop AND WILL NOT RESTART.

I wanted to give paul money to strip the boat and he refused to do the job, so he is scrupulous. I put a coat of cruiser uno on and will pull again in the spring once it's warmed up.

I will call paul and ask him to strip the boat, I'm not making that mistake again.

 

[gavin_lacey]

I just looked up the stats for southampton airport. July is the only month when the average nightime minimum temp is 12 degrees. Add this to the need for low humidity - definately no dew and you understand why I would not try coppercoating again without being indoors. In your original post you asked how critical temperature is. Add in humidity. As explained in my previous post getting it wrong is a bit of a nightmare.

 

[BAtoo]

A simple thought on copper coat type products - if it was that good wouldn't we all do it that way by now?? /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[vyv_cox]

No. The concept of paying a large sum up front for reduced cost over a long period is not one that many people subscribe to or are able to comply with. Otherwise, why would anyone tax their car for six months when they can do it more cheaply for 12?

The answer is obvious. Many cannot afford or justify the outlay for grit blasting, primer and Coppercoat, even though they fully appreciate the benefits to be gained if they did.

 

[Marsupial]

I ve had copper coat on for 5 years now, the boat has been hauled and washed once.

The doubters had a field day because the propeller had a few growths on it but none on the hull.

The bottom of the keel had all sorts growing on it but we couldnt copper coat that bit.

Add to that the fact that the boat hadnt moved for 7 months and the product is good. I think I will get at least another five years out of it. The best hull treatment I have seen, have now tried neat lanolin on the prop but I am not holding my breath.

 

[silver-fox]

Many thanks for that Snowleopard; firsthand, direct and to the point....giving me some food for thought. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif