Contessa 26 pre 1972 not self draining/post 1972 self draining

oldsalt said:
As the lower cockpit and bilges fill; the drains will get lower.... Also how do you stop water coming in when heeling?
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Why should the bilges fill? As I said, what doesn't exit via the drains would stay in the cockpit, a few inches deep at the most. Easily cleared out

Water won't come in when heeled if the pipes are crossed below the cockpit sole
 
parsifal said:
Why should the bilges fill? As I said, what doesn't exit via the drains would stay in the cockpit, a few inches deep at the most. Easily cleared out

Water won't come in when heeled if the pipes are crossed below the cockpit sole
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I think that only works when you have a waterproof cockpit sole above the waterline.... then you have no problem!
 
oldsalt said:
I think that only works when you have a waterproof cockpit sole above the waterline.... then you have no problem!
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Even if the cockpit sole is not absolutely watertight, and some water does find its way into the bilge, the amount is small and easily dealt with. It's not going to sink the boat!

The most important concern is not to have the stern held down with a cockpit full of water so that buoyancy is lost and more water can come aboard and make the situation worse. That's why you need to get rid of the bulk of the water quickly. A residual couple of inches sloshing around the cockpit sole is not a problem.
 
I get the feeling that generations are colliding here. Cockpits that drain overboard have had a very slow evolution in small boats, and I wonder if you just look across at keelboats you might see why designers of boats with lids weren't too bothered by them, since they were still constrained by the no headroom/low freeboard that made a sufficiently high floor difficult. Keelboats with open cockpits don't often sink on moorings - says he hopefully as he enters his first season of Etchells ownership - and bailing as you sail upwind is just a part of the fun.

I think that Parsifal is suggesting closing off the original drains to use his high level ones, and I think it's a really good idea - surely someone's done this before?

A friend has an open transom boat and is/was of the opinion that a closed transom cockpit is dangerous in following seas. I couldn't really understand why, but it transpires that he gets wave tops falling into his (through the transom) and calls this 'being pooped'. I think I've managed to persuade him that closed transoms are fine - I have actually been 'pooped', in the Needles Channel, and whilst at one moment we were sitting in a bathful it was just seconds before it had all gone. That was through just two 2" drains in a First 38. And before lpdsn gets the impression that I'm anti open cockpits, nope definitely not, but I do expect to lose the occasional winch handle.

Edit: I mentioned the pooping for two reasons. One that a closed cockpit isn't a liability, and also that a whole cockpit of water would be very bad news for the person who's on the pump in a cockpit that didn't drain.
 
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JumbleDuck said:
How much water are people used to taking into the cockpit. In my 26-footer I don't think I have ever had more than half a bucketful get in, and that only a couple of times. I'm moderately surprised if a cupful makes it, even in great bumpiness.
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The deepest I've had in my cockpit about 18" or so deep of water from a single wave, which was just in a F6. Two wave trains colliding at an angle just happened to produce a single very large peak that went up and decided to land in the cockpit.

I've regularly had waves sweep the full length of the boat and come into the cockpit. Perhaps to be expected when beating in a F8 (once I managed to get my wellies full of water standing at the windward wheel - should've strapped the oillies tight around the boots, but...). But I've also had it happen in about F4-5 (which admittedly was taking a shortcut through a race).

And that's a 43 foot boat that is a good heavy-weather boat.

Of course if you go out in less there is just a bit of a splash now and again, but the point is the Contessa 26 is touted as a good offshore boat. And if you go offshore you can be caught out by heavy weather.
 
anoccasionalyachtsman said:
And before lpdsn gets the impression that I'm anti open cockpits, nope definitely not, but I do expect to lose the occasional winch handle.
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It made me very careful about putting anything like a water bottle down. But then they're not a good idea on the cockpit sole as someone might stand on them and sprain an ankle. And sometimes you have to pull in the odd line that has gone over the stern.

I can't remember even losing a winch handle out the stern. They usually prefer to leave over the side. :)
 
lpdsn said:
I can see how it could cope with rainfall or the odd splash, but I've heard the Contessa 26 hyped as a good small offshore boat on many occasions but I can't see how it can be if all the water that comes aboard in heavy weather and ends up in the cockpit, drains to the bilges, no matter how deep they are.
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Perhaps you are missing the point. These boats were never intended for offshore sailing. The fact that people subsequently chose to use them in this way is testament to their seaworthiness. No doubt some owners converted them - hence the OP's original question, and subsequently the builder's modified the design - although less than satisfactory.

Many boats have sailed offshore with non self draining cockpits. Indeed they were rare until the advent of GRP which made construction of watertight cockpits easier, and designs with greater freeboard.

I have owned a 26' boat with non self draining cockpit for nigh on 40 years and have never had significant water in the cockpit. The boat in my hands and that of previous owners has cruised widely as far as south Brittany and Ireland without any problems.

Sometimes difficult for people brought up and sailed in boats with SD cockpits to appreciate that they are recent developments and generations before them thought nothing of having cockpits that drained into the bilge.
 
parsifal said:
What the OP could do is to fit some adequately sized drains part way up the sides of the cockpit. Although these would not clear all the water out in the event of the cockpit becoming full they would quickly get rid of the bulk of it, leaving a relatively small amount to be pumped out. when an opportunity occurred.
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My Hunter 490 has a drain about 3" above the cockpit sole, being titchy and low in the water. It works OK.
 
Early 26s had a flat panel in the cockpit sole and the later self draining ones have a raised cover that sits on a rubber seal. I think the change was in about 1972 although Jeremy Rogers has very good records of the boats and can probably help with information on individual boats.
My '69 version came with 2 drains to the bilge and a large metal pipe with non return valve about 3 inches up from the sole that drained through the transom. I assume this was standard. The usual practice was to keep bungs in the bilge drains when on a mooring to avoid rainwater filling the bilges. I tired of this and raised the cockpit sole by 4 inches and fitted the usual crossed pipes. Seating comfort was regained with a cushion to raise the seat level.
I've only ever been pooped once in a gale off Portugal and the resulting water was soon clear as the cockpit is quite small.
Jeremy did a restoration on an early 26 called Grayling and cut out the whole cockpit and raised it up. The the process was documented in the association magazine and the result was superb but then he has the skills to do this.
All boats are a compromise and and for me the positives outweigh the negatives. (Other opinions are also valid.)
 
Tranona said:
Perhaps you are missing the point. These boats were never intended for offshore sailing. The fact that people subsequently chose to use them in this way is testament to their seaworthiness. No doubt some owners converted them - hence the OP's original question, and subsequently the builder's modified the design - although less than satisfactory.
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Perhaps. I was just surprised to find such an obvious weakness in a 'good' offshore boat.
 
I think that the evolution of self draining cockpits was a major step forward in yacht design. It seems this is far easier to fit in a GRP boat as a drop in moulding. Yes it does require that the cockpit floor be above water line and yes a deep cockpit floor has advantages in a small boat and rough water. Our yachting Association rules are very specific in requiring self draining cockpits and even specify min number of outlets and size for ocean sailing.
Anyway for the OP if in doubt he can imply put a hose pipe into the cockpit and see where water comes out if at all.
As said if floor is too low then fit drains part way up but above water line and provide a pump for the bottom of the cockpit.
Perhaps the main advantage of self draining is the ability to dispose of rain over long periods of inattention. Either in water or on hard. olewill
 
It keeps being lost in the general discussion, but the OP isn't concerned about the safety or otherwise of self-draining cockpits; he's concerned about keeping water containing fish blood etc from making his bilges smell like a trawler. To me, it sounds like the suggestion of making the cockpit watertight with drains some distance up from the floor would achieve his aim. He'd need a smallish auxiliary pump to get water out of the bottom few inches of the cockpit, but water from a serious flooding incident would go over the side, and dirty water as a consequence of his fishing activities could be pumped out - probably accompanied by a few buckets full of fresh sea-water.
 
lpdsn said:
Perhaps. I was just surprised to find such an obvious weakness in a 'good' offshore boat.
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Pretty sure that many well known and respected offshore boats from the past , particularly those derived from working boats, would not have had self draining cockpits.

Perhaps you are looking at it from today's perspective rather than in the context of the time when the boat was designed (1960's) when SD was relatively new. As I suggested the design does not lend itself to such things as the difficulties of fitting one described by others here illustrate.
 
My Jaguar 24 has an outboard well, hence the cockpit has a massive hole to drain into which cant get blocked (i hope).
 
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