Containers lost overboard

[michael_w]

Someone's lost their no-claims bonus.

 

[newtothis]

Have another look - I don't think it is twist locked, the pockets are out of line. I think it's bottom edge is resting against a tiny step, and that's all.

On closer inspection [zooming in to 'elp me ageing eyes] I think you're right. But I have seen other pics of boxes dangling over the side at the top of a collapsed stack, still attached by only the twistlocks.
The system has been in use for 50-odd years and when you consider there are c. 200m containers shipped each year and on average only 1,000 lost, it seems to be quite effective.

 

[Concerto]

Could the initial collapse be due to a bottom container getting crushed? In photo 2 some of the containers are showing the box shape has become more diamond than rectangular. This would cause a stack to collapse.

 

[Kukri]

This is the sort of IT system that a modern ship carries to assist in weather related decisions. I have no doubt that in due course something similar will filter down to yachts one day.

ABB Ability Marine Advisory System - OCTOPUS | ABB Marine & Ports - Digital from bridge to propeller | ABB Marine & Ports

 

[mjcoon]

It’s going to take a fit, brave, young stevedore to get that one ashore safely. Lucky the ship is in Japan, where the stevedores are very, very, good.

Did they invent Jenga?

 

[Kukri]

Someone's lost their no-claims bonus.

Cargo claims initially estimated at US$50M.

She’s in the Japan P&I Club, which is a full Group Club.

She is a real NYK ship, managed by NYK Ship Management in Singapore. No third party manager. But I doubt if the officers and crew are Japanese.

 

[newtothis]

This is the sort of IT system that a modern ship carries to assist in weather related decisions. I have no doubt that in due course something similar will filter down to yachts one day.

ABB Ability Marine Advisory System - OCTOPUS | ABB Marine & Ports - Digital from bridge to propeller | ABB Marine & Ports

You'll have a better idea than anyone, but given that the ship would have known there was some wobbly weather coming, is there anything stopping the master putting the ship head to wind/waves to avoid getting the rolling motion?
Every carrier seems to love banging on about weather routing to save fuel, and I get this may not have been completely forecast, but are there no mitigating actions the crew can take?

 

[newtothis]

Cargo claims initially estimated at US$50M.

She’s in the Japan P&I Club, which is a full Group Club.

She is a real NYK ship, managed by NYK Ship Management in Singapore. No third party manager. But I doubt if the officers and crew are Japanese.

I was told the average value of a cargo in a container was $12,500 but that is was all high tech Christmas presents it would likely be much higher.
Guess a lot of those presents won't be arriving this year.

 

[Kukri]

You'll have a better idea than anyone, but given that the ship would have known there was some wobbly weather coming, is there anything stopping the master putting the ship head to wind/waves to avoid getting the rolling motion?
Every carrier seems to love banging on about weather routing to save fuel, and I get this may not have been completely forecast, but are there no mitigating actions the crew can take?

Beware - I can bore for Britain on this!

As we all know, a surprisingly large alteration of heading can be made without adding much to the track if it is made earlier rather than later in the passage. And as we also all know there is reluctance to actually alter the heading!?

The “MOL Comfort” which was 8,000 TEU and holds the current record for most boxes lost, actually broke in two, in the Indian Ocean in the SW Monsoon, because her Russian Master wanted to catch a Suez Canal convoy.

The Pacific is so big that weather forecasts for it can still be a bit rough round the edges. A Press release from NYK talks of F4 NWly and a significant wave height of 5-6 metres but that’s surely not going to trouble a ship this size - unless perhaps the period of encounter was “just right”, but even so... She may well have hit her own private storm cell. I have known that to happen and I have known weather reporting ships to “get their own weather back” -getting an expensive forecast on the basis of their own single observer report - but that must be less common now.

 

[Alicatt]

Is the hold of these vessels loaded with containers as well, curious?

View from my cabin on the Maersk Seville: going ashore, taking a container from the hold and putting it on shore then replacing the deck hatch to the hold, those crane operators in Zeebrugge take no prisoners, a friend was Master of this vessel, now retired.

 

[Kukri]

Alicatt those are really useful pictures showing all kinds of details. Thanks!

 

[pyrojames]

I was more thinking about a cargo fire, of which there are alarmingly many, rather than a fire that would disable the ship. There's a lot of toxins to blow down on the accommodation block before the ship is going to stop, not to mention spreading any fire to surrounding containers. If you put the nasties on the back, the fire is less likely to spread forward.

I was more thinking about a cargo fire, of which there are alarmingly many, rather than a fire that would disable the ship. There's a lot of toxins to blow down on the accommodation block before the ship is going to stop, not to mention spreading any fire to surrounding containers. If you put the nasties on the back, the fire is less likely to spread forward.

Smoke detectors usually result in the vessel slowing before the gases get too bad . A fire aft is too close to the ER to want to have DGs there too. Smoke ingestion to ER and DGs often means a loss of power. Fires close to the accommodation are best avoided!

 

[Alicatt]

Had a day out on the Seville with the Captain, very, very interesting as is the knowledge you have imparted on this thread.

I took hundreds of pics, my wife and I went to visit the ship after an invite, for an afternoon in 2008, ended up spending 2 days onboard
Me on the left getting shown the workings of the sextant by the ship's Master

 

[Kukri]

You'll have a better idea than anyone, but given that the ship would have known there was some wobbly weather coming, is there anything stopping the master putting the ship head to wind/waves to avoid getting the rolling motion?
Every carrier seems to love banging on about weather routing to save fuel, and I get this may not have been completely forecast, but are there no mitigating actions the crew can take?

I have just been chatting in a private Facebook group with some friends who are ex colleagues in a former employment. This comment is from the first non-Dane (he’s English) to be appointed to command of a Maersk Line long haul container ship:

“... for this type of rolling head to weather is fatal. Which is of course the challenge. As I understand it the vessel rolls, transversely, but pitches longitudinally, and the roll and pitch become synchronous increasing the amount and vigour of the roll. Critical time is actually the forward dive down the wave whilst excessively rolling which increases the violence. To create this condition the weather will actually be from ahead, mischievously defeating a lifetime of “weather on the bow and slowdown””

This is the seaman’s version of the airman’s “corner” - the moment when you run out of “envelope” - when stalling speed equals VNE.

I’ll just add that with today’s larger ships it can also arise with the weather astern. Earlier Japanese container ships built for the North Pacific had very well defended sterns and they used the old low powered tramp ship trick of putting the stern into the weather and going astern, feathering off on the container stack. This had to stop once ships grew large enough to need a handling deck under the weather deck aft.

 

[newtothis]

I have just been chatting in a private Facebook group with some friends who are ex colleagues in a former employment. This comment is from the first non-Dane (he’s English) to be appointed to command of a Maersk Line long haul container ship:

“... for this type of rolling head to weather is fatal. Which is of course the challenge. As I understand it the vessel rolls, transversely, but pitches longitudinally, and the roll and pitch become synchronous increasing the amount and vigour of the roll. Critical time is actually the forward dive down the wave whilst excessively rolling which increases the violence. To create this condition the weather will actually be from ahead, mischievously defeating a lifetime of “weather on the bow and slowdown””

This is the seaman’s version of the airman’s “corner” - the moment when you run out of “envelope” - when stalling speed equals VNE.

I’ll just add that with today’s larger ships it can also arise with the weather astern. Earlier Japanese container ships built for the North Pacific had very well defended sterns and they used the old low powered tramp ship trick of putting the stern into the weather and going astern, feathering off on the container stack. This had to stop once ships grew large enough to need a handling deck under the weather deck aft.

Interesting; to bring it back to yachting, it seems a bit like the debate between running off or actively sailing to windward. Didn't know the big boys had the same problems. Still can't get my head around what would do that to a ship that big.
Just been reading up on MSC Carla, the original 'the front fell off' ship. Seems like a similar situation of pitching and rolling, but with added length to compound the problem.

MSC CARLA departed La Havre, France for Boston on 21 November 1997, fully loaded with 21,171 tonnes of containers (2392 TEU). She had recently completed her 25 year special survey for Lloyds Register and the master reported her being in optimum condition. On 24 November 1997, when MSC CARLA was 125 nm, NE of Azores, weather conditions become poor with winds up to 70 miles per hour and seas over 11 meters. Seas were from the starboard bow, with swells from a previous storm from the port bow. At 1800, the vessel experienced several severe rolls, causing items in the deckhouse to be tossed around and all three engines to fail. The engineer was able to revive the center engine and the vessel continued on course but at reduced speed.
At approximately 1830, MSC CARLA encountered two very large steep waves. As the vessel was climbing the first wave, the master noticed that the light on the bow was not where he would expect relative to the rest of the ship. Coming down the back of this wave, the vessel made a “strange motion” and there was a loud noise. As the ship climbed the second wave, the bow separated to the port side. The captain was able to steer the stern to starboard to avoid striking the bow.
The bow floated for five days before sinking. The stern was towed to the Canary Islands to offload cargo, and then back to Gijon, Spain where it was scrapped.

 

[newtothis]

Could the initial collapse be due to a bottom container getting crushed? In photo 2 some of the containers are showing the box shape has become more diamond than rectangular. This would cause a stack to collapse.

That used to happen, but the Verification of Gross Mass rules were supposed to put a stop to heavy containers ending up at the top of a stack. But I'm sure every container pulled off ONE Apus will be carefully weighed.

 

[penberth3]

On closer inspection [zooming in to 'elp me ageing eyes] I think you're right. But I have seen other pics of boxes dangling over the side at the top of a collapsed stack, still attached by only the twistlocks.
The system has been in use for 50-odd years and when you consider there are c. 200m containers shipped each year and on average only 1,000 lost, it seems to be quite effective.

Yes, a very good invention. Even into the motorway age trucks only had 1/2" diameter hemp ropes to keep everything on-board!

 

[Concerto]

That used to happen, but the Verification of Gross Mass rules were supposed to put a stop to heavy containers ending up at the top of a stack. But I'm sure every container pulled off ONE Apus will be carefully weighed.

I was thinking more of corrosion inside the box sections of the container rather than the heavier containers up the stack.

 

[PilotWolf]

Beware - I can bore for Britain on this!

As we all know, a surprisingly large alteration of heading can be made without adding much to the track if it is made earlier rather than later in the passage. And as we also all know there is reluctance to actually alter the heading!?

The “MOL Comfort” which was 8,000 TEU and holds the current record for most boxes lost, actually broke in two, in the Indian Ocean in the SW Monsoon, because her Russian Master wanted to catch a Suez Canal convoy.

The Pacific is so big that weather forecasts for it can still be a bit rough round the edges. A Press release from NYK talks of F4 NWly and a significant wave height of 5-6 metres but that’s surely not going to trouble a ship this size - unless perhaps the period of encounter was “just right”, but even so... She may well have hit her own private storm cell. I have known that to happen and I have known weather reporting ships to “get their own weather back” -getting an expensive forecast on the basis of their own single observer report - but that must be less common now.

Probably irrelevant but when I worked at Gatwick the airport ‘area’ often had its own weather compared to the surrounding country side.

There were many suggestions as to why.

W.

 

[penberth3]

I was thinking more of corrosion inside the box sections of the container rather than the heavier containers up the stack.

I think a 7 year life was quoted earlier in the thread. You would hope any container with excessive corrosion would be rejected regardless of age - no idea if that's how that works in practice!