Confirming the stereotype weekend charterer...

[DickB]

Yesterday whilst returning from Weymouth just off Calshot Spit I saw a Fairview Saling yacht (a Bav 49 at a guess) on a beam reach crossing in front of me. I have always been cautious of these yachts because the skippers experience level is an unknown, but hey we all enjoy sailing...

So the general area is a bit like the M25 on a bad Friday afternoon, and into the fray hammers this yacht, with full main and genoa in around 30+ knots of wind. The genny was half way out, and the main right out; canvas all over the spreaders, and as soon as they tried to full it in, the poor old yacht heeled right over and came up into wind. The overall motion was a sort of semi circular dance giving us the impression of the yacht being barely in control. Everyone, including myself gave these guys a very wide berth. It seemed to me that they had never heard of reefing. They should have looked around as nearly every other yacht was either fully reefed or running just on a single sail.

To cap it all, having managed to bash there way up to the entranc of the Hamble, they yanked the mainsail down with the boom right out, wind in the sail and canvas slapped against the spreaders as it was hauled down. Poor old sail...

All I can say is that I pity anyone eventually buying this yacht at the end of its charter life.

In most cases these yachts seem to be handled pretty well, but unfortunately this performance just reinforced my (probably) prejeudiced views on weekend charterers - keep your distance...

 

[Goldie]

They weren't the only ones! I was broad reaching back from Studland towards Hurst on starboard when a Bav 34 (?) appeared, broad reaching on port and on a perfect collision course - and held it's course....... I luffed behind him (despite being poled out and with a preventer on the boom) but it was like rabbits in the headlights.

 

[MarkGrubb]

I think it's a fair point. But just to restate it: when someone is learning to sail, they may make mistakes or control the yacht in a manner that is difficult to predict. So it best to give such boats/skippers more room than is normal. If they boat berths near you, then some friendly tips/advice may be welcome (or may not be, depending on the sailor temperment I guess).

Much like many other sports I imagine.

 

[Sans Bateau]

Good points, we all have to learn. But, If its a vessel being used for sail training, as a sailing school, then the RYA instructor aboard should have issued instructions to reduce sail and in the second case to observe col regs.

If the vessels were being chartered, the charter operator should have ensured the charterer is suitably qualified.

 

[vestorn]

Why not a mandatory, big red "L"-sticker in the sails?

 

[DickB]

I like the 'L' idea... It is true that everyone has to learn, but I would expect a charter company to ensure that someone on board knows what they are doing... Certainly not in this case. In hindsight I wish I had videoed a bit of this, it would make entertaining viewing...

 

[AlJones]

I received my Yacht back from a training weekend this Monday, and a tad upset.

High earning exec bankers from town, hyper intelligent, common sense???????

No two reefing line, pulled through, Lazarette upside down, fore peak in the worse mess I have ever seen, cooker, disgusting, Heads broken flusher, Instructor stayed on the boat for two hours after the students left to try and put things straight.

I was on the boat Friday night getting it ready from them being on it the previous weekend, took me 2 hours!! I could have left the boat in the condition they had left it for them to find it, but thats just not me!!!!

Why are some people so ignorant when it comes to other peoples property????

It really gets under my skin, I thought to myself, [--word removed--] 'em, they aint getting their certs until my boat is put back how it should be. But Tina wouldn't let me!!! /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif She is right I suppose, future business etc.

Al.

 

[B175Chris]

I'd have charged them for damages, Al, that's terrible - if you broke the toilet in a hotel room they'd have that money off your card as soon as you walked out the door!

And they're bankers as well you say?

Inflate the prices! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[Sans Bateau]

You do surprise me! Keeping a boat tidy, ready to sail, keeping everything ship shape is part of being a good skipper/crew. Pardon me but shouldn't the instructor have insisted that was part of the experience, tidying up, during the weekend?

 

[Bodach na mara]

Up here on the Clyde, it is Sunsail (often referred to as "Scumsail") boats that we try to keep clear of. Not all who charter them are the same, but we have seen many instances of daft (and bad) behavior. Like trying to berth the 36 foot Sunfast 36 boat at the Tarbert pontoon by rafting up to a 27 foot yacht. And then getting another three of their flotilla to berth outside them. And trying to squeeze into a berth in Rothesay alongside another wide yacht that has left a gap that is two feet too narrow for the Sunfast 36. Then reversing out to try it with more speed and power!

They do provide some amusement however. On Saturday, before the Scuttlebut Rally fleet arrived, we were at the pontoon at Cumbrae Sailing Centre. There was a Sunsail boat on the outside of the pontoon (the easy side to get on and off from) with a crew that were obviously on a tuition course, possibly Competent Crew. They were having a long lecture when we arrived. Following that, they held what can only be described as a committee meeting to decide how to cast off. Twenty minutes later, after much untying and retying of warps they were still there! As I assumed that the instructor was leaving them to it to sort out how to get under way, I left them to it, but I admire his patience. If it had been me, I would have had them all back to the cockpit for a re-instruction session within five minutes.

 

[Chrissie]

I watched a fairview sailing vessel on the Saturday, I was reefed but it wasnt but seemed to be coping, I was amazed to see it sail right over to the Bramble Bank post, I was very nervous for it as there wasnt a great deal of water at that time. either someone extreamly confident in their tidal calculations (to the cm. I guess) or just someone not as aware that even pressure changes and swell can make enough difference to the depth to hit bottom, at their speed I dont think they were feeling their way along by use of depth instruments.

 

[nightjar]

Why are some people so ignorant when it comes to other peoples property????
------------------------------------------------------------------------
There are an increasing number of people sailing today who have no concept of how they should respect other people's property and fail to understand that facilities are provided for the use of all not their personal need. It is becoming the norm to leave trollies on the finger pontoon rather than return to the pier head. Hosepipes are left in a tangle requiring someone else to sort out the problem, that's if they bother to return the hose at all. Damage caused while bearthing next to other boats is never viewed as their responsibility. I feel that this is linked directly to the huge increase in people who are now sailing but who charter/ timeshare boats on an ad hoc basis rather than own their own boat. As for the qualifications of these skippers, I suspect that some sailing schools/ charter companies are flexible on qualifications when a credit card is being offered ! Thankfully those who display their ignorance in their sailing are a small but increasing minority.

And a big thank you to whoever smashed my stern light last week.....only £80 for the replacement !

 

[maxi77]

I don't want to scare you but all of the symptoms you mention are present at the marina I use, but there are no charterboats, so owner driveers seem to be as guilty.

 

[Litotes]

Must say, this isn't the kind of behaviour I often encounter on the East Coast. Perhaps the Solent is the first place people think of for occasional sailing (as opposed to sailing as a way of life) Many reasons for that, including the unglamorous mud, the dependence on the tides, the relative shortage of marinas, the logistical issues involved in coming and going whenever you please and the lack of "apres sail" activities (except for a lot of good pubs) I'm happy to say that I've never seen a Sunsail yacht over here and never, ever, paid for the privilege of dropping my anchor. Indeed, there are still many places where mine will be the only boat within a mile or more when I do anchor and where I can pick up a mooring or lie alongside without charge. There's at least one delightful spot where the fee for lying alongside pilings or a handsome smack is "something behind the bar for the lads if you go to the pub".

Of course there are many skilled, dedicated and responsible sailors on the south coast, as there are out east. But over here we don't seem to attract the "go for a jolly and move on to the next thing" crowd. The mud sorts out the sheep from the goats in short order.

 

[Boat44]

unfortauntely the world is full of w****s and that includes out on the water. And whilst we yachties would hope this was limited to the stink boat brigade we would be sorely wrong.

There are fortunately more decent people than w****s. But the next time a coroporate chatter boat goes past my pontoon at over 6 knots the skipper might just find out how good my aim is with a......!

 

[Sans Bateau]

You haven't got a monopoly on mud on the East coast you know, have you ever been to Chichester Harbour, Newtown Creek or Bembridge for instance?!!

However I do agree, and if you think about it, a company will choose a location for its charter business where transport links are good, road/rail/and air, where there is already a sailing history and where there is relatively good shelter, hence the poor old Solent gets lumbered, us 'locals' aren't over the moon with it.

(PS, I spent two nights at anchor for ten quid, but that was out of choice, the National Trust do not charge for anchoring in Newtown, just ask for a contribution, which I'm glad to make)

 

[Alcyone]

It cuts both ways.

When on our Day skipper course in Oban in June, the skipper of a yacht under power started shouting at the girl at the helm of our training vessel (which was under sail) about the stand on vessel maintaining its course. Technically, she did wobble a bit, but it was very difficult for a nervous sailor on her first attempt at sailing, and I really don't think that the other chap had any reason to be so intolerant.

I do think that there are some people who could try a little more understanding sometimes. Maybe if he had taken his head from the colregs a little sooner, he'd have seen us coming.

Not casting aspersions re: this case, of course.

 

[Litotes]

[ QUOTE ]
You haven't got a monopoly on mud on the East coast you know, have you ever been to Chichester Harbour, Newtown Creek or Bembridge for instance?!!



[/ QUOTE ]

No, never been to any of those places, but if they have mud then I approve. Mud is a great leveller and a great hooray henry deterrent.

However, I submit that our east coast mud pays, perhaps, a little more attention to its duty to keep the HHs at bay. One of the ways it does this is by making it impossible to land in most places at most states of the tide and also by extending itself cunningly (with the help of its colleague, sand) far out to sea - this making sure that some of our key routes are coloured green on the chart and accessible only to those who are willing to work (very carefully) their tides.

I have little knowledge of the Solent area but don't doubt its many and varied merits. Each to their own.

 

[AlJones]

I live on The River Blackwater, very East Coast Muddy, and run my Sail Business on the Solent, also, by the state of the anchor locker when I check my boats over, a muddy place!!!!

I do find though that when boating on the East coast, the mud is quite a bit closer to the keel than it is 'Darn Sarf'.

Al.

 

[Babylon]

Without condoning ANY sort of ignorant, selfish, stupid or plain unseamanlike behavour, we do all have to start somewhere... This is my first season as a day-skipper (albeit on my own small old yacht rather than a charter thingy).

On Saturday afternoon, beating into a F5 down the busy Western Solent, appropriatedly reefed down, I twice - each time on port tack - misjudged the bearing and rate of approach of stand-on yachts. In neither case did the situation became critical, but I felt foolish and embarassed and have now learnt the lesson to take early avoiding action if I'm in the slightest bit uncertain.

My feeling of foolishness was however tempered the following day when, running back and well off Cowes, we twice found ourselves on the close quarters receiving end of daft/dangerous behaviour: the first where the SO yacht suddenly rounded up to furl their genoa; the second where the GW yacht (over 40ft, new and expensive) didn't give way in the slightest and we were close enough to read the washing-labels in their crew's 'team-colour' clothing as they charged past!

Then, that afternoon, having successfully anchored under sail (for the first time, and first time, phew!) in Osborne Bay, we watched a charter yacht drag its anchor and almost collide with another charter yacht before waking up and dealing with it. They were - as it happens - both Fairview Sailing yachts...

My other observation - probably worthy of a separate post altogether - is that, after gaining my Day Skipper practical with a well-known school in Southampton, I didn't feel in the slightest qualified to actually skipper a yacht! Two days of the course were spent holed up in marina (F9 conditions - a lost opportunity to practice heavy weather sailing), and a good deal of the remaining sailing time was spent training the very novice comp crew people, rather than giving me any real opportunity to practice skipper decision-making. I wonder how many RYA 'qualified' skippers, fresh certificates in hand, are similarly unready...?