Compulsary Cert of Competence

Yes that's where I got my info and that's why I rang Sunsail as I had thought about a flotilla and didn't need any certs last time I went (about 17 years ago mind) - You'd think the RYA would be right???
 
I dunno...but as it's a certificate of competence then they would have to prove incompetence to make a case.
Dont know if it's ever been tested, but as I can prove a higher level of competence than the instructor (based on my instructor for YM who also does SRC..who really doesnt know Jack Sh** about radio) then I doubt whether they would want to test it in court. I have several formal Radio Communications qualifications...he doesnt.
In it's present form the SRC is a very poor and rather expensive course.
What they should concentrate on more is teaching people how to do reasonable installations, and give them a reasonable grounding in how it works.

Unfortunately this requires skilled instructors of the sort the RYA dont have.
So they just concentrate on the procedures, cos it's simple and requires no real knowledge.
I often wonder whether the RYA is the right organisation to handle radio qualifications..or maybe it would be better off with the RSGB, for both LRC and SRC.
All the correct procedures in the world aint gonna help you if you got a naff installation and you are five miles out with a duff antenna connector pressing your DSC button frantically to the sound of static as your bilge pump finally gets overwhelmed.

Steve.
 
Re: It\'s a thought, and I like

a bit of anarchy but there's a whole lot of things you can know all about but you still need to "hoe your row" with the mortals to get a bit of paper.

I for example know pretty much everything about everything, but every now and then I descend from my peak and join in with ordinary morons/mortals. It's a complete waste of time of course but sometimes it makes me smile.

My Yachtmaster instructor checked on my SRC before we sailed. Didn't yours?
 
Re: It\'s a thought, and I like

Peppsie
It was your all-round modesty that first attracted me to you, and now you tell us that you mingle with mortals - is there no end to this?
 
Re: Ticket factories

Got a vhf certificate-wow.
Actually did a rya yachtmaster theory course some time back,the stupid thing was that due to other commitments i did not complete the exams-would i bother now to relearn al those flags and morse and now i imagine electronic plottings-certainly not.
And only been asked for a bit of paper once-in France of course....
 
Re: Ticket factories

Flags and Morse are no longer required for YM offshore.I struggled to learn it when I did a theory course back in the 70s,was greatly relieved to find it had been dropped when I did the practical 20odd years later.
 
Yep, I'll admit to sailing across the Channel without an ICC cert, or any other one for that matter. And down to the Scillies and across to Ireland. About 50 Channel crossings in all in 30 years sailing. Isn't it funny that I'm still alive after all these years without my little piece of paper ?
 
[ QUOTE ]
As a slight aside - what would the penalty be if someone bought a DSC radio but didn't bother with the test?

[/ QUOTE ] Death I should think . . . so don't call me up on the radio again, too risky yer know . . .

(Have been trying for two years to get a half day course that is affordable and local and no success. Don't use the DSC except when alerts come through, only got the set because I won it in a competition and if I had won it knowing what I do now I would have kept the old Sailor and flogged the DSC on Ebay or SailRoom)

- Nick
 
[ QUOTE ]
I have been sailing for a long time and never had a VHF Licence

[/ QUOTE ]

I thought it was just me /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Sorry, can't support anyone not having VHF certs....

If a few 'get away' without one, then others will think its acceptable, and they might be the ones that don't know what they are doing, and chat away on Ch16 when I need it for an emergency...

To me it just seems that you are not accepting your responsibilities in a society where following the rules is part and parcel of also being able to get the benefits....

'I'm alright Jack' is an attitude that is more prevalent in 3rd world anarchic countries... not a modern, safe, wealthy country like the UK.....

IMHO
 
As someone who comes from a comercial background, I find this aversion to compulsary certification a bit of a mystery. Can some here realy state a strong case for not having it. Not a personel view but reasoned, balanced view?

I,ve seen many a yacht cruising happily down channel blissfully unaware whats going on around him, and how things work in practice. Which in reality is miles away from what is said and done in quite a few yachts, not all of them.

When working on salvage tugs, many a time I've had to remind the yacht trying to pass astern us that the ship following us was attached by a long length of wire.

Its fine leaving your tack to the last minute, but only you know what your doing, the guy on watch in the big boat hasn't a clue what your up to, he has to make a descision on what he sees, and he's more than likly never sailed.

If everyone had to go in a simulator for a day and handle a large vessel, they'd realise what it is to handle them, as well as what you can see from the bridge/radar, little white boats don't show up well and very seldom on radar.

Crossing the channel isn't the issue, its about knowing whats happening around you and understanding how things work. I've done RYA training (I also hold an MCA class 2 Certificate of Competancy), and frankly the training fall very short of what I would say is requiered. Rules of the road seemed to consist of mainly yacht based situations, little work on lights and shapes & a lot of bickering about racing rule and why didn't they applly???

Its all in your own interests really, I'm all for safe family boating, I sail all year round in heavy shipping areas.

End of gripe. I'm putting my tin hat on now, and heading for the shelter /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif
 
Incoming missile

Most of us arguing against certification on this forum probably already have certificates, or at least enough experience to get the certificates without too much trouble, so I don't think that we are arguing against certification because of any self-interest.

If you have a licensing system, it's either a low enough level so that the qualification is meaningless except giving the holder an exagerrated sense of competence, or its so hard that it makes it too difficult to start sailing. Even if it's easy it probably puts some people off. I'm not sure that I would have started sailing keelboats if I'd needed a certificate.

The Polish system is one that has very stringent requirements - a friend I took sailing recently was absolutely amazed that I let him steer the boat, because he hadn't yet got his "Helmsman's Certificate" - he'd only been sailing for a couple of summers. To get a skipper's certificate takes yonks. Result: there are few Polish yachtsmen outside the lakes. The skippers that I HAVE seen are all called "Captain" and swagger.

The worst departures from commonsense and Colregs that I have seen is in licensing-mad Germany, where boats routinely seem to give way by cutting finely across your bows. Not prohibited by any collision regulation, but bad seamanship. I never saw so much indiocy in the Solent as I did in one afternoon sailing up the Kieler Bucht. The only 'useful' thing that the licensing there seems to do is make sure that everyone uses their motoring cones on fear of being fined.

Sailing in Sweden (no licensing) standards seem to be high. I only had one incident last year with a Halberg Rassy under motor resolutely refusing to give way when I was going in the opposite direction under spinnaker. He forced us to gybe. He was flying the German flag. I have nothing against Germans and German sailors as a whole, I really like the ones I've met, I'm just using them as an illustration of why a strict licensing system doesn't work.
 
Re: I did exactly what you suggest

I spent a day in a simulator and a day on the water in man size models. It's an eye opener. The INTERIM STANDARDS FOR SHIP MANOEUVRABILITY are an eye opener too.

The guys I did the course with were pilots from various parts of the world. They were all good boat handlers and said that the course made them sweat. They also said that I'd be surprised how many Masters didn't really fancy the up close stuff at all.
 
Sorry, but just because the RYA and RA (Ofcom) collude togther to make a bit of extra money out of people doesnt make it right to shove everyone into the same basket.
To force me and other professional communications engineers/operators to take an SRC, or even LRC for that matter, is exactly the same as forcing a master mariner supertanker captain to do the yachtmaster course just because he has retired and bought a 40ft mobo or something.
After spending a lifetime in and around radio, as a Signals instructor, professional communications engineer, radio amateur etc why should I waste a day and pay about seventy quid to learn something I already know...
I can prove I am qualified enough with other related certificates..so why should I have to do it??
I know the phonetic alphabet backwards..sideways upside down.
I know all the nato prowords...add in Seelonce and Finee (which dont occur) and I have more than the full set of marine prowords
I dont just know the Marine channels..I know the frequencies of the major ones as well.
DSC is just a form of selcall that has been around in PMR/Amateur circles long before the marine radio industry re-invented it.
Navtex is the same as Amateur Packet radio...only slower and more primitive..
AIS is the same as Radio Data Location or "DF hunting" which has been an amateur sport for years..
Apart from the fact that is uses Gaussian Minimum Shift Keying..(.there bet you didnt know that did you..???) which is more recent.
I could go on but I'm sure you get the picture...DSC aint new and neither is anything else in marine radio. So why do I have to re-learn how to use old technology that I was dealing with commercially years ago.

Rant over


Steve.
 
[ QUOTE ]

After spending a lifetime in and around radio, as a Signals instructor, professional communications engineer, radio amateur etc why should I waste a day and pay about seventy quid to learn something I already know...

[/ QUOTE ]
So that people who don't know feel compelled to go learn to get their certificate.......

Otherwise, one day, when you need it most, you'll know exactly how to make a distress call, only some idiot will be open key, playing a CD over channel 16 to his mate, so see if he can recognise the artist..... because he never learnt properly.... and no-one made it awkward to not be qualified.... after all... why should he... that bloke a few pontoons up, who is a radio expert doesn't have a certificate... so why should I bother....

However, in your case, it would seem to make sense for the RA to have an exemptions process, giving you a certificate through evidence of other superior/relevant qualifications...

All IMHO
 
I'm not advocating not having a certificate..just that those who are already qualified by virtue of other similar and related qualifications and who can prove it...
should be given a waiver from the exam and a certificate issued without having to take the course.
I dont even mind paying for it....it's the moronic course and waste of time that I object to.

Steve.
 
Most of that sort of behaviour comes from Land based Piracy not from the marine community or if it does it's from the water ski PWC types.
You will never stop that...as long as marine radios are freely available over the counter without production of a ships radio licence.
It'll get even worse when it's de-regulated, and marine sets get even cheaper.
They make a great alternative to CB or PMR446. Take a scan over the marine bands in any big city and you'll hear a few conversations going on.

There is no chance of the band being policed anyway, OFCOM or MCA just dont have the man power.

Steve.
 
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