Compulsary Cert of Competence

[fisherman]

As soon as it is suggested that a cert is a good idea the insurance companies will agree and insist on it, on pain of invalidating a claim (as they have with household repairs). Thus their risk is reduced at no cost to themselves.
If you don't take the lead and arrive at some manageable qualification that suits the MCA and insurance companies you will have it imposed on you, and I guess it won't be pleasant. That's our experience in the fishing industry.

 

[duncan]

Re: ICC - validity & who qualifies?

I am not sure this is a clarification despite being accurate!

As you say [ QUOTE ]
The ICC can be issued to anyone of any nationality but only by their government or its designated agency.

[/ QUOTE ] which translates straight back into the RYA only being able to issue certificates of competence that are accepted under the terms of the ICC to UK nationals or residents.
In practice where charter firms operate in say Greece they have arrangements whereby they are designated to issue cerificates of compentency accepted locally and, naturally, one of they are happy to take an ICC issued by the RYA as one of their (not the local Goverments) criteria. Equally I believe they are happy with Coastal Skipper and YM although these are not in themselves ICC's.
All comercial charter operations will have resolved this locally.
Where the problems can occur is if you, with an RYA issued ICC, are lent a boat flagged in the local country that requires you to hold a certificate of competence. Technically your ICC will not 'cover you'.

 

[alant]

Re: ICC - validity & who qualifies?

I have an Italian friend, recently got his RYA Dayskipper in UK, but is unable to get ICC & wants to use it for bareboat charter in Med.
Italian authorities will not recognise RYA cert!

 

[alant]

Re: ICC - validity & who qualifies?

Where the problems can occur is if you, with an RYA issued ICC, are lent a boat flagged in the local country that requires you to hold a certificate of competence. Technically your ICC will not 'cover you'.
___________________________________________________

This seems to concur with me, that RYA based ICC's can only officially be used on British flagged vessels (similarly with commercial endorsements).

Presumably the 'local' authorities are turning a blind eye with charter companies who accept RYA ICC's, but how with these psuedo qualifications are insurance claims sorted if there is an unfortunate incident?

 

[ditchcrawler]

Re: ICC - validity & who qualifies?

I usuallystay on the R2R site & wonder over here on occasions.I am against mandatory qualifications although I have the qualifications myself.What I am surprised about is that several people argue that because they know all about radios etc they do not need a licence( I agree that the licencing for the radio is admin gone mad & this is being rectified with the one off licence) My concern is that you cannot choose which laws to ignore.The point was well made by others concerning the "well he hasn't got a licence why should I bother"I really think this is irresponsible to be virtually bragging about breaking the law.May be better to be like dad & keep mum.

 

[Phoenix of Hamble]

Re: qualifications

[ QUOTE ]
First, j'accuse: NAS is really Jack Nicholson.

[/ QUOTE ]

Eh...?

Bien, vous avez tort !

[ QUOTE ]
Learning as you go along may or may not be fine, but there is a saying that goes: "experience is an expensive school, and a fool learns in no other". I raised the issue of tuition in a thread (labeled colregs).

[/ QUOTE ]

Agree....

My view is that a qualification will never prove that you are good at something...... it will however prove that you aren't bad at something........

Really... a compulsory cert IMO isn't about making sure that you are a safe user... its about making the whole environment safe....

As I've said before.... I don't want to be in trouble, needing my VHF, surrounded by people who don't know how to use it.......

 

[Mirelle]

Re: Fakes ....

The Bahamas end of things stopped when they appointed John Mervyn-Jones, absolutely genuine Welsh Extra Master and VGB, as Director of the BMA; he moved the office out of the High Commission and overhauled the staffing.

I am shall we say less confident about Panama and Liberia.

Did you know you can register a ship on the Cambodian register on the Internet?

And on the Mongolian register, too!

 

[Superstrath]

Worse than fake!

[ QUOTE ]
Welsh Extra Master

[/ QUOTE ]
IMHO a Welsh master's ticket would be no more use than a Liberian driving licence /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

I did this all back to front: Got a proper British ticket then had to get a Panamanian one to qualify to sail on a Panamanian ship! They sent me a nice quiz, which we did in the ship's bar, then a few weeks later my ticket arrived. Hurray! IIRC this was precipitated by ridiculously zealous colonial authorities in Long Beach. Looneys.

 

[duncan]

Re: ICC - validity & who qualifies?

[ QUOTE ]
Presumably the 'local' authorities are turning a blind eye with charter companies who accept RYA ICC's

[/ QUOTE ]

no - as I say they make local arrangements. Take for example the situation if you go to France and hire a boat on the inland waterways. You or I would need ICC + Cevni to satisfy the authorities on our own boats but we are only required to satisfy the hiring firm if we turn up and hire one of theirs. They take responsibility to both their insurers and the local authorities as to your competence. Turn up with an ICC and they will give you a very cursory briefing - turn up with out one adn they will give you a slightly longer briefing/training/assesment!

 

[Lakesailor]

Re: ICC - validity & who qualifies?

I may be talking bollocks here, but I was talking to a boat hire business whose owner is an RYA instructor. He tells me if he does group instruction he has to have a safety boat present. If he hires the boats to the group on a straight hire basis, but stays in his office with his feet up, he doesn't have to have a safety boat.
How daft is that?

 

[Melody]

Re: ICC - validity & who qualifies?

Yes, this is because he is not a UK citizen or resident. We often have to advise other EU citizens who come to do Day Skipper with us that they cannot get an ICC.

In my experience many bareboat charter companies will accept RYA Day Skipper if it is a gentle sailing area, although for more difficult areas eg: Cyclades, they often want RYA Coastal Skipper.

Is it possible for him to do an ICC practical test in Italy? These only take a day so shouldn't be expensive, and if he already has prerequisite knowledge he may not need to take another course.