Not only DIY insurance, I'm with Pantaenius and they want notified if any lithium is part of your power system.
You are in a minority. Lithium batteries far exceed the performance of lead. You may not need them as your cruising lifestyle doesn't need them. I get the impression thst you have a minimalist approach to cruising.
No - he is in a majority. You are in the minority for exactly the reasons you state that make lithium desirable and practical. For the vast majority of sailors in the UK neither their pattern of usage nor charging facilities make lithium desirable or practical. It is perfectly possible to enjoy all the mod cons in a modest cruising boat in the UK using well established systems based on lead acid batteries.
The original purpose of the post was to advise the OP that some, including my Plymouth based, insurance companies have requested that they are advise if lithium is onboard. Simples.
I am not argue with you. My point in my first paragraph was that your view of lithium was in the minority. It will out perform lead. It will last longer even if you don't take onboard the benefits available from using it. I fully accept that the need for lithium on the small boats cruising the UK is not there. Most people don't have the comforts that liveaboards demand and by virtue of the size of typical boats in the UK, they don't have the space. No arguments from me.
Where did he say anything about "performance" - he is not convinced by the "benefits". There is no disagreement about the superior "performance" - how could there be it is fact.
I think Sandy used Vende Globe as a throwaway general example. Also he was talking from his point of view as a UK cruiser, which you accept? Horses for Courses
Maybe the sensitivity amplifier is turned up a tad high, with regards to Lithium?
Not a majority then, only half.
Oh good grief. Take a chill pillI think Sandy used Vende Globe as a throwaway general example. Also he was talking from his point of view as a UK cruiser, which you accept? Horses for Courses
Not a majority then, only half.
We are looking at the issue from different angles. In your world you say that lithium is ‘the’ solution, in mine I’m saying it’s not; it is one option.
Comparing lifepo4 technology with lead.We are looking at the issue from different angles. In your world you say that lithium is ‘the’ solution, in mine I’m saying it’s not; it is one option.
I'm an old, hairy engineer and have worked on some highly technical, and costly, work programmes and fully understand there are often many ways to solve a problem. Some work better than others, all are compromises.
What I don’t understand is the view that lithium have a ‘better performance’ than any other battery. They deliver 12 or 24 volts at an amperage suitable for the device at the end of the wire.
We will all understand a boat has three things to consider:
and need to balance the three. In other words, the more I consume the more I need to generate and (perhaps) store.
- Power Generation;
- Power Storage; and
- Power Usage
My understanding of the Caribbean informs me that there is ample sunshine, wind, hydrocarbons and hydro power (assuming you have it and are underway) to power any boat.
From my reading about lithium batteries I understand that they are lighter and can be run down to a lower state of charge, 10% is often quoted.
Now the engineer in me is beginning to scratch his head. Given that the Caribbean cruising community is located in almost perfect conditions for power generation, lots of sunshine, lots of wind and they are usually moving about, why are they all struggling with power management and need lithium batteries? We do need to consider that need to recharge them again and they are clearly doing that otherwise they would be plugging into shore power every few days! May I suggest that many of them have made different design choices, for example ice makers, than I would make.
Moving onto the use of lithium batteries in events like the Vendée Globe. Unless the laws of physics have changed from when I was at school the greater the mass, the greater the amount of energy was required to move it. Hence things that are designed to go fast are made of light materials, carbon fibre – that sort of stuff. Hence there is a benefit in having batteries that have less mass. Lets not mention Hugo Boss's carbon fibre bucket.
I know that @shanemax mentioned centre of gravity calculations, but there are cantilevering keels and the last ‘ocean going racing dinghy’, an OSTAR competitor, I crewed on had water ballast tanks that were filled when needed.
Now racers get all huffy about drag and stuff and only dip their Watt and Sea into the oggen* when they really have to - fast charging times are good. They also spend quite some time at high latitudes where the sun is not as powerful as in the sunny Caribbean. Thus solar is less effective in charging their batteries – thus being able to extract 90% of the stored power would be useful. After all they need to appear on all that social media stuff via satellite that I suspect there is quite a power penalty on that.
Cost is another issue that we best not consider in this thread as there is just not enough data worldwide to come to any conclusion.
And on that note I hope my solar panels are keeping my 390Ah + 80Ah of AGMs fully charged in a dreich February in Cornwall.
*another name for the sea
Oh yes. You are right
