Gary Fox
N/A
Since RAM is intended for vessels carrying out work tasks or military duties, it can't legitimately be used by leisure vessels. I can't think of any exceptions.
Replenishment at sea? Surveying?
Replenishment at sea? Surveying?
Colregs: Restricted in her Ability to Manœuvre is not intended to be used by leisure yachts.
- Thread starter Gary Fox
- Start date
MystyBlue2
Active member
I must admit, i thought it was however stupid that may seem. Valuable lesson learned
Mark-1
Well-known member
I'd be interested in seeing if a court has ever defined the word 'work' in this context. I'd have thought a leisure vessel could be restricted by towing - perhaps in an emergency situation. The OP offers replenishment as an examplen which also could apply to a pleasure boat.
So I suspect that 'work' in this context may mean 'task at hand'.
Typical of the IRPCS to use a word that requires definition in a definition. ?
Someone with a copy of Cockroft and Lameijer will be along shortly to help us out.
So I suspect that 'work' in this context may mean 'task at hand'.
Typical of the IRPCS to use a word that requires definition in a definition. ?
Someone with a copy of Cockroft and Lameijer will be along shortly to help us out.
Last edited:
RichardS
N/A
How about a leisure vessel with a partially jammed rudder which can only move a ten degrees each way from straight ahead and the engine jammed in gear and running away? It's definitely not fully NUC but sounds like fully RAM?
Richard
Richard
Last edited:
MystyBlue2
Active member
Deleted
Last edited:
Poignard
Well-known member
More appropriate would be Rule 27(a) "Not Under Command"
When I was a 3rd engineer in m/v "Bernes" we had a major engine breakdown in the Pacific and driftted for abot 36 hours displaying the appropriate signals.
Two black balls was always jokingly known as "the Chief Engineer's house flag.
When I was a 3rd engineer in m/v "Bernes" we had a major engine breakdown in the Pacific and driftted for abot 36 hours displaying the appropriate signals.
Two black balls was always jokingly known as "the Chief Engineer's house flag.
laika
Well-known member
I believe you can get NUC with RAM inside. Quite handy for a boat computer:
Intel® NUC - Small Form Factor Mini PC
Gary Fox
N/A
I have C and L in front of me, it isn't madly explicit. Towing possibly if it's a 'difficult' tow, not a straightforward one.
Diving is another possibility I suppose.
Mark-1
Well-known member
Answers the question perfectly. 'Work' means 'operations' so a Leisure vessel *can* be RAM. QED.
Gary Fox
N/A
RAM is meant to be due to a task you are deliberately doing, eg dredging, launching aircraft, but NUC is due to exceptional circumstances.How about a leisure vessel with a partially jammed rudder which can only move a ten degrees each way from straight ahead and the engine jammed in gear and running away? It's definitely not fully NUC but sounds like fully RAM?
Richard
I think that your example would definitely be NUC.
Gary Fox
N/A
Operations, yes of course. I still think the spirit of the Rules doesn't intend it to be used by yachts though...
RichardS
N/A
Ah yes .... that sounds plausible. A task that you are deliberately engaged in, whether commercial or leisure. My example does not fit that definition. In fact, quite the opposite.
Richard
john_morris_uk
Well-known member
I disagree. The rules are quite explicit inasmuch as a vessel NUC is a vessel that due to exceptional circumstances cannot manoeuvre. If your rudder jambs and you jury rig another but it's fairly ineffective I suggest you'd be perfectly entitled to put RAM day shapes and lights up. Interesting as to how many yachts could actually do this!
The interpretations you quote also indicates that the list given is not exhaustive.
Gary Fox
N/A
An interesting suggestion, using it for the improvised rudder. I forget where, but I once saw two all-round red lights on a cable, to be hoisted aloft for such situations.
Last edited:
Mark-1
Well-known member
Not sure this is up for debate, the rules are (for a change) clear. You are only RAM if you are RAM due to the nature of your work. A vessel with a damaged rudder is not RAM due to the nature of its work, it's RAM for a different reason and therefore doesn't meet the test.
john_morris_uk
Well-known member
I think you’re being too narrow in your understanding. For example a towing vessel is NOT automatically RAM. It’s got the right ‘nature of work’ but unless it’s severely restricted in its ability to manoeuvre it’s not RAM.
The yacht that can just about steer and maintain a course is not NUC What day shapes and lights do you suggest would be sensible to show?
Gary Fox
N/A
That's the way I have been interpreting it as well. All the discussion is educational though.
Last edited:
Gary Fox
N/A
I'm not sure that there are any particular lights or shapes which would be appropriate to show if you could just about steer and maintain a course. It would only resemble sailing in extremely light winds, barely able to make steerage way.
john_morris_uk
Well-known member
The actual rule says,
The interpretation merely gives a few examples and specifically says the list is not exhaustive. I completely agree that normally it will be the nature of the operations the vessel is undertaking that determines its status but if your struggling to steer (but can ‘just about’) how are you going to indicate this if not by showing RAM day shapes snd lights?
It’s a fairly silly argument as it’s unlikely to happen, but I know I’d rather be in court saying I did my best to indicate my problems.
Remind me where the rules define RAM? It’s actually up to the vessel to decide whether they’re restricted in their ability to manoeuvre. (Set example of towing vessel)
The interpretation merely gives a few examples and specifically says the list is not exhaustive. I completely agree that normally it will be the nature of the operations the vessel is undertaking that determines its status but if your struggling to steer (but can ‘just about’) how are you going to indicate this if not by showing RAM day shapes snd lights?
It’s a fairly silly argument as it’s unlikely to happen, but I know I’d rather be in court saying I did my best to indicate my problems.
sarabande
Well-known member
NUC is defined in Rule 3 as a vessel that through exceptional circumstances cannot manoeuvre as required by the Rules, hence RichardS yacht with a rudder problem is NUC and not RAM as she cannot be properly controlled to make extensive changes of course. Showing NUC is not a comfort or convenience option but out of necessity.
Rule 3 then further qualifies the NUC definition to RAM by adding "from the nature of her work". I suggest that "work" entails "reward", so a yacht or mobo transferring passengers or goods to another recreational vessel does not become RAM. Perhaps an ice cream boat or marina or chandler's RIB does qualify for RAM ?
One notes that one use of RAM is for vessels engaged in launching aircraft, so perhaps flying a drone requires black ball/diamond/ball.
It is clear that recreational vessels engaged in fishing with rods/lines etc which do not cause RAM are not "fishing vessels"
I incline firmly towards the Fox's original suggestion that RAM is not for leisure craft, who should use normal and appropriate lights or shapes, or NUC if there is any steering problem even minor.
Rule 3 then further qualifies the NUC definition to RAM by adding "from the nature of her work". I suggest that "work" entails "reward", so a yacht or mobo transferring passengers or goods to another recreational vessel does not become RAM. Perhaps an ice cream boat or marina or chandler's RIB does qualify for RAM ?
One notes that one use of RAM is for vessels engaged in launching aircraft, so perhaps flying a drone requires black ball/diamond/ball.
It is clear that recreational vessels engaged in fishing with rods/lines etc which do not cause RAM are not "fishing vessels"
I incline firmly towards the Fox's original suggestion that RAM is not for leisure craft, who should use normal and appropriate lights or shapes, or NUC if there is any steering problem even minor.