Colregs - Motor Sailing Cone

[Poignard]

Last Sunday in the Solent. Loads of sailing boats moving around under power with sails set. Between the Hamble and Gosport I only saw one motor sailing cone and that wasn't mine, I have to confess. It was such an unusual sight that I summoned SWMBO up from chipping the ballast pigs to look at it, as if it was a total eclipse or something.

No doubt it was the same everywhere else. It's probably not a problem for us raggies because we know, or think we know, if another yacht is motor-sailing; but what chance have the wretched motor boaters got of knowing what we are doing?

Isn't it time they who write the Colregs admitted defeat and came up with some other indication that a vessel is motor-sailing during the day? Funny thing is it doesn't seem to be a problem at night; obviously reaching down the companionway and flicking the steaming-light switch is no trouble but strolling up to the foredeck and hoisting a cone is too much bother for most of us, even in a flat calm as on Sunday!

 

[SkipperMarv]

But you have got to realise the only reason that particular yacht actuall had a motoring cone up was that it was a training boat and they had an examiner on board.

/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

Seriously, most yachts motorsailing run with the front bedsheet down and run under power with the back one up for steadying in the UK, especially in the Solent.

But you are quite right, is obeying the rules of the road something that should be too much bother, motoring cones, anchor balls are there for a reason, how often do people use them? not often enough in my view.

 

[Poignard]

[ QUOTE ]
Seriously, most yachts motorsailing run with the front bedsheet down and run under power with the back one up for steadying in the UK, especially in the Solent.


[/ QUOTE ]

Exactly my point. You know that, I know that but anyone who doesn't would be able to claim you weren't showing the correct shape if it came to court.

Anyway, I sometimes sail with only the mainsail set.

 

[Blue5]

Exit from Portsmouth is a classic example, it is very crowded with commercial traffic and it is easier with the shelter to get the main up inside. I guess the motoring cone should be hoisted as well as its an engine on job until you are at No 4 buoy but I have never seen this happen in reality.

 

[shmoo]

We need to reintroduce the sailing ball. I gather that these were used back in the days when motor-sailer meant a big cargo ship.

It means, on a boat that might be thought to be motoring: "I am sailing, not motoring, but sailing"

 

[capnsensible]

Front bedsheet??? mm............

 

[Neraida]

Sorry, but anybody looking for common sense in the solent, or anything nearing good seamanship, is looking in the wrong place.

 

[Victorious]

Oh dear.

 

[Richard10002]

[ QUOTE ]
We need to reintroduce the sailing ball. I gather that these were used back in the days when motor-sailer meant a big cargo ship.

[/ QUOTE ]

Still involves the hassle of putting something up and, in this case, it would be hidden by the sails from many angles.

I saw a yacht a while ago where the motoring cone was permanently on a halyard near the mast, such that it would be simple to merely raise or lower it, rather than go down below searching for it in a locker, tieing it to the deck, loosing a halyard, attaching a halyard, then pulling it up.

At the time I thought that can go on the winter jobs list. In fact, if it could be fed back to the cockpit.....

I was taught that, officially, if a boat has sails up, and no cone, you should treat it as a sailing boat.

 

[Poignard]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, but anybody looking for common sense in the solent, or anything nearing good seamanship, is looking in the wrong place.



[/ QUOTE ]

What a piffling statement.

And you know of some idyllic place where everyone always uses motor-sailing cones, do you?

Please tell us where it is. It certainly isn't any of the places where I have sailed, which include the South Coast of England, the West Country, Scotland, France, the Mediterranean, the West Indies and Hong Kong.

 

[Neraida]

Sorry, my comment was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek, not offensive. I'm a Solent sailor afterall.

 

[cnh]

You've obviously never been to Germany, Mr Twister!

Last April, I was coming out of Kroeslin marina - beautiful Baltic day, blue sky, breath of wind. I stopped in the channel, hoisted the main, and pottered on. Loudhailer behind me. Turn and see Wasserschutzpolizei boat heading towards me.

'You have sail up and motor on!'
'Yes...'
'You must put up cone. Now!'
'Er ... right.'
'You have cone?'
'Oh, yes,' sez I, lying through my teeth. 'I'll just go down and get it ...'
By the time I re-appeared, he'd disappeared over the horizon.

Now I have a cone.
Didn't use it last Sunday in the Solent, however. There was enough wind on the Saturday, but I decided to go on main only. Gives a better view forrard, and I was in no hurry. I wondered how many boats would assume I was motoring ...

Nicholas Hill

 

[Koeketiene]

Motoring cone = RYA exam in progress

 

[Poignard]

[ QUOTE ]
Sorry, my comment was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek, not offensive. I'm a Solent sailor afterall.


[/ QUOTE ]

No offence taken. However, you have now made yourself a hostage to fortune! /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[moondancer]

The fact that I tried four chandleries before I could find one to buy says something.....

 

[fireball]

I have to admit that we were one of those merrily burning fossil fuels whilst drying out the aft bed sheet ....

The main was up early with the intention of sailing ... Sat would've meant we were pressed for time (taking the in-Laws to Bucklers Hard for the first time ... with the tender so they could have a run up beyond our normal range) so with a dead run we ended up motoring with the main right out... Sunday the main went up in the river on the way out (noticed a certain BN hadn't moved all weekend! /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif) and then out into the solent ... oops - no wind ... but poor vis too ... so the extra sail will help with others being able to see me ... and any yacht able to sail with a flapping main at 5 knots when there is no wind is a superb sailor so you really should keep out of their way ...

 

[Victorious]

[ QUOTE ]
and any yacht able to sail with a flapping main at 5 knots when there is no wind is a superb sailor so you really should keep out of their way ...

[/ QUOTE ]

And anyone not able to figure that a boat doing 5knts in no wind might be motoring, Is going to know what a cone means??

 

[Goldie]

It's not difficult, is it? Use the cone and everyone knows what's what, the insurance companies haven't got a get out and we leisure sailors have removed another possible argument for licencing and regulation.

Don't even start me on the idiots who can't even the select nav lights form a very limited choice of options... /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Robin]

Well we left the Solent for Poole motoring but with no sails up at all in zilch wind. Later started sailing under genoa alone as the main would have blanketed the genoa and we were fishing anyway and 4kts was fine. Watched whilst we were caught and overtaken by a Moody 31 also with just a genoa set - how could he go that quick? Ah yes the motor is on as well!

In most raggies minds and I suspect most mobo owners with any time served, a yacht with a hard sheeted in mainsail and no headsail set is almost certainly motoring. ALL of us must assume that a yacht with both main and foresail set is sailing, irrespective of cone or not because a cone would be hidden anyway.

It really irritates me to give way under sail or motor to a yacht that has all sails up with the motor running as well! This is quite common in French waters and I find myself firstly wondering how that small boat can be sailing when we cannot in apparently zilch wind or in light winds have more speed than us or can point so very close to the wind - then you hear the donk. I have even tacked to avoid some of these before the centime dropped.

Do we have a motoring cone? Yes...... somewhere.
Do we use a motoring cone? No, but we NEVER motor with headsail set.
Do we set an anchor ball? No, not in a recognised anchorage but otherwise yes.
Do we show an anchor light at night? Yes always if at anchor, not if on visitor buoys.

I saw a yacht once with a black clew triangle to his roller genoa, so unfurling it a couple of feet showed a black cone, seemed like a good idea but isn't visible from ahead or astern maybe.

At night the use of correct lights isn't good either IMO. Too many people motor with tricolours on, with or without a steaming light and frequently with deck level bow/stern lights as well.

Personally I would be happy enough if folks would motor in daylight with just the mainsail set, not with both or with genoa alone. At night please change your lights when the donk goes on.

 

[Sans Bateau]

I agree with you on this, not to say I always use a cone but do more than most (that can mean once a season!).

You see we cannot complain about mobos not respecting col regs, or anyone else for that mater, if we are going to insist on being selective ourselves on which bits of the col regs we choose to have enforced.

As someone else has suggested, ignore the rules at our peril, another step closer to enforced licencing