COLREG when one boat is much faster than another

[Sta]

Someone told me that if one boat is much faster than another, then the slow boat has the right of way. That makes sense, if I sail or row a boat in a few knots, then my possibility to avoid collision is very limited compared to the boat which is going in over 30 ḱnots. I have not been able to verify this. Is it true?

 

[Daverw]

I don’t think speed has any factor in this, slow boat could be classed as more manoeuvrable,

 

[Bobc]

Having been there, what I can tell you is that at 20kts+, you treat everything else (yachts, rowing boats, etc.) as stationary object and steer to keep clear of them. This is because they simply do not have the ability to get out of your way quickly enough, even if they realised how quick you were going (which most don't).

I'm not sure what the colregs say, but in a practical sense, this is what happens.

 

[Pye_End]

Someone told me that if one boat is much faster than another, then the slow boat has the right of way. That makes sense, if I sail or row a boat in a few knots, then my possibility to avoid collision is very limited compared to the boat which is going in over 30 ḱnots. I have not been able to verify this. Is it true?

No. That would just get too confusing.

Both parties have a duty not to collide, so there is no 'right of way', and COLREGS include the case where the behaviour of one vessel will not be sufficient.

Rule 6 may also come into play, though not a direct answer.

 

[Leighb]

I was told by a friend who had the opportunity to be on the bridge of the fast catamaran that Stenaline ran between Harwich and the Hook for a number of years, that at the cruising speed of around 35 to 40 Kts they treated all other shipping as stationary obstacles to be avoided.
I travelled on it a few times. It was interesting sitting at the bar which ran across the forward passenger area with panoramic views ahead watching other ships appear and pass behind as if they were anchored!

 

[awol]

Someone told me that if one boat is much faster than another, then the slow boat has the right of way. That makes sense, if I sail or row a boat in a few knots, then my possibility to avoid collision is very limited compared to the boat which is going in over 30 ḱnots. I have not been able to verify this. Is it true?

That "someone" is an idiot whose views on any subject should probably be ignored. The way to verify it is to read the IRPCS and try to understand them. They are available on line MSN 1781 Distress signals and preventing collisions - GOV.UK

 

[iantomlinson]

Whatever happened to 'power gives way to sail'. Also 'overtaking vessels keep clear'. Combined with the general port/stbd passing. Surely that does the majority. Add in common sense and courtesy and there's not a lot left.

 

[Norman_E]

I recommend you buy this book and study it. If you are in command of a vessel there is no substitute for knowing and understanding the rules. A Seaman's Guide to the Rule of the Road
EDIT. I am not sure if there is a more recent edition, but this is the one I had until I sold the boat.

 

[Daydream believer]

deleted

 

[CM74]

I recommend you buy this book and study it. If you are in command of a vessel there is no substitute for knowing and understanding the rules. A Seaman's Guide to the Rule of the Road
EDIT. I am not sure if there is a more recent edition, but this is the one I had until I sold the boat.

Yep that book is still going (and very good as a self-teaching book) and the fundamental principles of the rules have stayed the same for years.
"A Guide to the Collision Avoidance Rules" (Cockcroft and Lameijer) is even better as there are all sorts of detailed explanations and court cases in it too. It's more aimed at the big ship POV though.

OP, With give way/stand on, the speed as such doesn't matter (though method of propulsion does though).

As a generalisation, the duty to keep clear lies with the overtaking vessel (if it's overtaking.)
And also remember, the stand on vessel May "take action to avoid collision by her manoeuvre alone, as soon as it becomes apparent to her that the vessel required to keep out of the way is not taking appropriate action..."

And, eventually: " When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision"


It's also important to remember though that the section dealing with all the stand on/give way stuff applies when risk of collision exists, so a fast moving vessel taking early action to avoid a risk of collision being created in the first place is of course complying with the rules.

 

[laika]

The correct answer is, I believe, awol’s post #6: don’t believe what your mate or random people like me on the Interweb say…if in doubt read the rules.

In practice high speed craft (e.g. in the solent the hovercraft and the red jet) often alter course to avoid a risk of collision with slower vessels (e.g. a yacht under power) arising in the first place but that is a different thing to their speed having any significance if the colregs come into play.

 

[Sta]

And, eventually: " When, from any cause, the vessel required to keep her course and speed finds herself so close that collision cannot be avoided by the action of the give-way vessel alone, she shall take such action as will best aid to avoid collision"

Thanks for all answeres.
I think think what CM74 wrote was what the person I talked to was thinking about. If I'm coming in an kayak and a boat comes in over 30 knots, then I have no possibility to avoid collision and the fast boat shall take action.

 

[stranded]

Whatever happened to 'power gives way to sail'. Also 'overtaking vessels keep clear'. Combined with the general port/stbd passing. Surely that does the majority. Add in common sense and courtesy and there's not a lot left.

Try pottering up to the Rtir start line feom Lymington for a civilised start and meeting the big boys coming the other way! ?

 

[thinwater]

Not sayin', just wanted to share the image. Unbelievably, no one was injured. But this suggests problems beyond COLREGS:
DWI driving pickup and related issues.

This, based on the USCG accident report

 

[rich]

I once had 2 fast windsurfers crossing from my port side, I’m doing 6 knots,one went astern of me the other across my bow shouting SAIL!,,,,, I replied 15 tons off wood!

 

[Biggles Wader]

Not sayin', just wanted to share the image. Unbelievably, no one was injured. But this suggests problems beyond COLREGS:
DWI driving pickup and related issues.

This, based on the USCG accident report

Needs a bit more tension on the foot of that main, Never make progress to windward like that

 

[johnalison]

Fast motor craft, ships or boats, aren’t usually a problem, though I have learned to be suspicious of any approaching powerboat. The chief difficulty I have encountered has been fast dinghy catamarans doing 15+ knots across my path. Some people helming these craft don’t seem to understand the physics involved with manoeuvring a 5-ton yacht even if it is the give-way vessel, even under power. I believe that there is a moral responsibility for fast vessels of any kind to keep clear of slower vessels, but there is clearly nothing in the regs beyond the normal duty of all vessels to avoid endangering others by allowing a situation to arise when a collision might occur.

 

[johnalison]

I once had 2 fast windsurfers crossing from my port side, I’m doing 6 knots,one went astern of me the other across my bow shouting SAIL!,,,,, I replied 15 tons off wood!

Reminds me of when my sister was skiing and while doing a traverse in one direction two young men skied over her skis more or less at the same time in the other. I thought it was funny at the time but she had a sense of humour failure for the rest of the day.

 

[Pye_End]

I believe that there is a moral responsibility for fast vessels of any kind to keep clear of slower vessels, but there is clearly nothing in the regs beyond the normal duty of all vessels to avoid endangering others by allowing a situation to arise when a collision might occur.

There absolutely is a duty (in COLREGS) for the faster vessel to keep clear of the slower one, if the actions of the slower are not sufficient to avoid a collision. The bigger the speed difference the more likely this is to happen. This could get close to a fast vessel generally needing to take such action, as indicated in the stories in this thread.

 

[thinwater]

There absolutely is a duty (in COLREGS) for the faster vessel to keep clear of the slower one, if the actions of the slower are not sufficient to avoid a collision. The bigger the speed difference the more likely this is to happen. This could get close to a fast vessel generally needing to take such action, as indicated in the stories in this thread.

Needs a bit more tension on the foot of that main, Never make progress to windward like that

According to the USCTG report, the sailboat was on port tack.

It's hard to tension the foot when the boom goose neck is hanging off the quarter.