Coll regs & Shipping lanes

[peterb]

"I think courtesy to commercial vessels should be considered good practise"

A sailing school yacht is a commercial vessel; you would always give way as good practice?

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[CrossHorace]

Just started reading this forum and this thread has made me cross enough to register and have my say.

The rules as they exist are for the protection of all mariners and vessels.

Altering course to port can be dangerous, yes, so can altering course to starboard, both are legitimate under current rules.

Yachts keep clear, define a yacht, Mirabella V?

Crossing situations, commercial traffic gives way to yachts because they are obliged to and will always do so if they can, you may just be the least of their 999 worries though, keep ears and eyes open.

TSSs' time to read up on your definitions of 'not impeding' and 'keeping clear'.

If the risk of collision exists then everything reverts to basics, everyone has a duty to avoid collision.

Restricted visibility? Read, learn and inwardly digest rule 19. EVERY eventuality is covered.

We must all be able to justify our actions afloat, as soon as we invent our own rules the borders will become blurred and the rule book may as well been thrown out of the window.

The rules are there, they work, follow them and YOU will be in the right, all else will fall in to place.

CrossHorace.

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[StugeronSteve]

Last sailing school boat I came across rammed me whilst I was tied to a pontoon, so I tend to keep well away from the b*****s anyway!

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[jimi]

Seismic survey vessel provided the funniest exchange I have ever heard. Basically there was a race going on via the Needles to StPP and the seismic ship was going along broadcasting its position speed & course frequently and advising that it required a clearance of 10 cables or whatever. Next thing

"To the large fleet of racing yachts bearing down on me please be advised that I am etcc etcc"

5 minutes later
"To the green yacht bearing down on me I am restricted in ability to manouevre and require clearance of x metres"
1 minute later
"Old man, yo're not going to make it, haul your wind"
30 seconds later
"to the skipper of the green yacht, your not fit to be in charge of a bar of soap! I've had to go hard astern to avoid you!"

there then ensued various conversations with the CG etc


Not one word from the yacht .. preume they were'nt listening on 16 at all. I presume they were disqualified

<hr width=100% size=1>.. whit way roon should it be again ..

 

[StugeronSteve]

Sorry but I'm not advocating any rules about yachts giving way. I am merely saying that I like to keep out of the way, and if that is done early enough there is not likely to be any confusion caused.

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[StugeronSteve]

Posted this before but the best vhf exchange I have ever heard made us smile on the way back from the Cbourg trip.

Ship: Yacht position xxxx, speed yyyy, heading zzz degrees, this is the MV Blah Blah. Sir please alter your course 10 degrees to port you are currently on a collision course with me.

Yacht: MV Blah Blah, this is the yacht position etc. If you don't mind me saying so sir you can b****x.

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[qsiv]

Leaving aside the apocryphal ones, I think my favourite was from the warship (?destroyer) accompanying the 50th anniversary Little Ships back to Dunquerque.

As the flotilla was about to cross one of the shipping lanes the ship whistled up a tanker nthat would have split the flotilla

'Tanker xyz, this is Northumberland, please alter course 10 degrees to starboard'

Tanker X : 'No thank you, sir'.

Warship : ' Tanker X, this is warship Northumberland, I say again, you WILL alter course 10 degrees to starboard'.

Tanker X 'Altering course. Out.'

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[Twister_Ken]

Dear Mr Meldrew,

If the rules work so jolly well, why do ships keep banging into each other?

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[jimi]

Look its quite simple .. if your both trying to keep out each others way you stand more chance of colliding .. take the office corridor .. how may times do you dance there? On the other hand, if one guy knows he can ignore eveyone else and everyone else knows to avoid him .. then its quite simple really ..

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[Evadne]

ColReg Number Zero: All small vessels shall keep out of the way of a large vessel.

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[brianhumber]

Re: No simple ----

Right on brother - my policy as well

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[Rowana]

Re: No simple ----

As I said in another reply - I'm a lifelong devout coward too !

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[Guest]

Seismic Survey boats ...

Having been a Boat Driver .... on Seiosmic Surbey boats in Gulf Of Mexico, Claifornia, Indian Ocean, North SEa, Irish Sea etc. for a period .... part of lifes sentence !!!! I can honestly say that it is nerve-wracking !!!

We used to tow either 3 or 5 arrays. The central actual seismic cable was up to 4 kms' long, the others being the Gun arrays of up to 50m long.

For a SS vessel to go astern would be DISASTER - as then the seismic cable - full of kerosene by the way would be in danger of a) sinking if pressured, b) coming to surface if not, c) fouling the ship it is being towed by, d) being a bloody danger to all around ......

Any questions ?

<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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[Guest]

During Aural Exam

I was asked if I was steaming along and saw a Tug and Tow that should give way to me, what would I do.

I offered that officially I should stand on and make him alter course - BUT that in the interests of Good Seamanship and knowing the difficulties he would face - I would make a bold alteration of course and allow him to continue unimpeded.

The examiner praised me for my consideration and I passed.

The rules are there to define and set actions to avoid confusion. But they also say that action may be taken by stand-on vessel ... ok they do say a little more - but prudent seamanship can and has a place on the sea / water ......

OK - we hate racing fleets - but I for one will let them through if I can - why ? If I was stonking on to the finish line and some hard-arsed Rule Toting boat skipper insisted on his rights - I would be p.....d off particularly if a small alteration on his part would be enough .....

Sorry but I HATE rule quoting !!!


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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[StugeronSteve]

Too b****y right!

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[StugeronSteve]

Re: Shall we dance..

Never tried to dance with a tanker, I've heard that they tend to tread on your toes.
However, I have had an occasional shuffle with a mobo!

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[tome]

Re: Seismic Survey boats ...

Seismic streamers are ballasted very carefully to give neutral buoyancy at operating depth, using lead weights in various places. This can take a lot of time at the start of a new survey. They are steered to the correct depth using 'birds' which are wings similiar to submarine hydroplanes. The streamers are kerosene filled and ballasting will depend on the salinity and temperature of the water. It's a bugger doing a survey near a freshwater estuary where the streamers are up and down like a whores knickers.

If the streamers are deployed, a seismic ship must make at least 3-4 knots (they sink to the bottom and the gear collapses) and less than 6.5 knots (they tear off). It costs about $1 million per streamer to replace. Turning a seismic ship through 180 degrees takes about 20 minutes.

At the end of each streamer there is a surface tailbuoy which is about 12ft long with GPS and other antennas and some sort of (probably illegal) light. This will also be doing 5 knots and will be a long way behind the ship (~ 4km). When the ship has completed a turn, she will be going towards he tailbuoys which can add to the confusion of observers.

In addition to the streamers, she will also have airgun arrays deployed up to 200m behind the ship. These generate a shock wave and you don't want to be anywhere near them: 2000 psi and around 3000 cu in volume discharging in millisecs is a lot of energy. They go off every so-many metres (usually 25), and the two arrays usually go off alternately which is flip-flop shooting.

The streamers are kept apart by large deflectors the size of barn doors which are attached to surface paravanes and large diameter steel hawsers back to the ship. If a ship slows too much, these collapse and you then have 3 days work on your hands to untangle the mess.

A seismic ship cannot put any sternway on whilst streamers are deployed or else risks gear collapse and snagging cables on the seabed. Only time she'll ever back up is to recover the final tailbuoy, which is a time of rejoicing on board cos handling the gear is bloody hard work and the only time it all comes on board is when buggering off to port or the start of a new job. They are dry so the seismic crew are usually in the pub before the first messenger line is run ashore.

Our latest ship can handle 20 streamers, but all handling is done by machinery (they don't know they're born). I never had to wrestle more than 5 of these snakes.


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[Guest]

CGG + Western

With CGG - we had the cleanest guns in the business - Starjet working off steam without the air bubbles after shot to ditsurb the signal. They were directional and had greater power than the air guns when taken in connection with vertical .... but appeared less because of air guns dirty spread. With CGG we NEVER backed onto the tail buoy, we always stayed at 2 - 2.5 knots throughout the full retrieval.
With Western we actually used to back onto the last 50% of cable and tail ..... that took me a while to get used to after CGG !!

Loved Port time - as Mariner on board - I didn't have Seismic job to do so buggered off !!!

As to the novel - you wrote !! Boy memories !


<hr width=100% size=1>Nigel ...
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[tome]

Re: CGG + Western

Western merged with Geco-Prakla to form WesternGeco who employ me to design nav equipment. I was chief navigator on Geco ships until 95.

I heard they had a hell of a job wrestling the wine off the Frenchies on the CGG ships when they went dry...

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[Oldhand]

Well said CrossHorace, couldn't agree with you more.

There appears to be many people who have no idea what their actions do for those in charge of navigating commercial shipping. When we amateurs perform manouvres contrary to the COLREGS requirements, which judging from this thread is common practice, I can just see ship's watch officers saying to themselves "well I haven't a clue what that yacht is up to or what its going to do next, so I will just carry on regardless and hope it keeps clear".

Those people who perform antics contrary to the COLREGS are the people that have caused the problem. In shipping traffic pleasure boaters must assume they are in the neighbourhood of professionals and try to act in a professional manner themselves.

I believe that when a potential collision situation is arising and there is no sign of a ship altering course or speed when COLREGS require him to take the avoiding action, it is professional to to try and contact the vessel by VHF and request his intentions. Its a shame that many ships don't yet seem to be in the habit of monitoring channel 13, as the GMDSS allocation of this channel to "bridge watch" should releave channel 16 of non-distress traffic.

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