Cleats

[Guest]

My poor old Beneteau has no cleats in the middle of the boat (only fore and aft). In a marina the other day, I saw a Moody with what appeared to be RetroFit cleats that were screwed into the toe-rail amidships.

This looked like a spanking good idea to me. Has anyone got any idea where I could purchase such gizmos from (being no good at metalwork myself).

Mark

 

[Gunfleet]

Before you go screwing holes in your toe rail you can usually find add on cleats which will clip onto your genoa track.

 

[Stork_III]

Have a look at Plastimo catalogue, They do cleats for toe rail which being french may match that fitted to your boat.

Mailspeed's full catalogue is Plastimo's. Ask them to send you one.

 

[dickh]

I believe Barton also do clamp on/slip on cleats that fit on the Genoa track.

dickh
I'd rather be sailing...

 

[Miker]

Thanks for asking the question and the replies. It is always worth trawling through this BB for questions that I would have asked if I had the wit. My Beneteau is the same, and I found details of the Barton sliding cleats on the WEB.
I will now have to have a look at my boat to see if the cleats willl fit.

 

[andy_wilson]

Substitutes

In no particular order... OK strongest to weakest.

Mast foot.

Primary winches.

Other winches.

Shroud deck plates.

Through bolted purpose made cleat.

Geonoa track cleat.

=Toe rail cleat.

=Stanchion Base!

Have a look for the trickest, stripped out, souped up racer you can find in the marina and see what they tie up with.

 

[Joe_Cole]

West Marine have these in their catalogue. They may show them on their web page.

Joe Cole

 

[jimi]

I use one on the genoa track and it has changed my life. Gone is the worried stoop & furrowed brow. Only real concern is dropping it over the side ... all £50's worth ..

Jim

 

[Guest]

Thanks Jimi,

After a previous reply that said use the Genoa car, I was a bit worried, thought this seems like a mad place to put one. Looked on the Plastimo website and indeed they do sell them. Just needed someone to say that they were good.

Presumably you can buy them in ones?

I'll find out tomorrow

Mark

 

[Guest]

Re: Substitutes

But Andy,

I have the trickest, souped up racer in the Marina.

Well, to be fair, the rest are all Westerly Centaurs or Fairlines

I didn't know at the time that we'd bought a racing boat, but when we were anti-fouling/ grinding the keel everyone who came and talked to us said "are you going to race her", even a guy on the phone when we got the insurance asked the same question. "No, just cruising, we said".

Mind you, the way we sail, even the Oppi's in Calais marina were beating us.....

 

[quaelgeist2]

Re: Substitutes

@ andy wilson

strongest to weakest ? maybe.. but

Mast foot - depends a bit what construction you have, doesn't it ?

Primary winches - some models don't like the shocks from a place with swell and you may find them worn out after some time

Other winches - same as above, but even higher risk

Shroud deck plates - practical ?

Geonoa track cleat - are those really designed for shocks from swell ?

Toe rail cleat - why so low, if the toe rail itself is of a good construction (mind some mass series boats)

just my 2 cents

chris

 

[Aja]

Re: Substitutes

I wouldn't advocate using any winch as a cleat.

I wouldn't be too happy in using a deck stepped mast either!

 

[jimi]

Re: Substitutes

I don't see the problem with using the primary winches as cleats, and in fact if towing or being towed they would be my first choice in fitting a bridle. Am I missing something?

Jim

 

[Aja]

Re: Substitutes

Jim

I aggree that if you were getting a tow, I would certainly spread the load using a bridle round primary winches. I certainly would not use winches as a substitite for a cleat when alongside.

Cleats are precision engineered, and the snatch load could ruin the spindle and/or races.

The original poster asked if there was a substitute for midship cleats. I wouldn't say that a winch was.

Trust me I know. One b*gger*d winch was the price of experience.

Donald

 

[Guest]

Stregth of fittings !

I have had occasions where standard factory installed Samson posts / cleats etc. have carried away.
One time the boat was saved by the 'insurance line' that I always rigged slightly slack to the mast foot from the mooring chain along with the standard mooring lines to samson post.
Another was where the mooring pick-up buoy was made off with short lanyard to pulpit rail to prevent chafe on hull sides, this saved the boat when the deck mounted bow mooring cleat broke away.
Last was where alongside pontoon in Yarmouth IoWight ... mooring cleat broke aft but the breast-rope made fast to the winch held her without problem.

I consider Andy's list as pretty accurate and must say that I have from the above proven it !! and that laying to exposed tidal mooring / pontoons etc. have convinced me of the strength.

 

[Guest]

Mmmmm ????

So the snatch load of a 150% genny in full flight is less than a normal mooring day ??

I would assume that the only time a winch would suffer from a mooring line is that of real bad weather, old / poor winch etc. etc.

I have mid-ships mooring cleats, but they are not trusted completely by me, and it is not unusual for me to use winches / etc. as additional points. I have done this for years and not had any problem at all.... this includes the old Bakelite as well later Lewmar winches etc.

 

[jimi]

Winches as anchorage points

Appreciate what you say, but I would'nt have thought the snatch loads on the winch would be high if its being used for a spring, which it is when it is most likely to be used as a substitute for a centre cleat. My cleats are a bit on the wee side so I tend to use the primary winches & the anchor windlass as anchorage points for springs in a tidal berth or rafting up. I also see a lot of other boats doing similar. Is that likely to lead to winch or windlass damage or was Donald's problem a bit of a one off?

Jim

 

[Guest]

There is no substitute

There is no substitute for real cleats ... the types that fit to toe-rails / genny tracks are not serious jobs as they rely on the strength of the fitting they clamped onto.
The only factor in favour is that most loads are side and sheer - not causing too much problem for these fittings - except the toe-rail of course !

I honestly advocate the properly fitted cleat through bolted with backing plate - there is no substitute ... but of course you can also read Andy's and my postings on this thread that show an alternative that many use and many have had no problem with.

 

[Aja]

Re: Stregth of fittings !

I dont have any argument with the strength of a winch - just think of the load it is designed to carry. My argument - or point of view - is that I wouldn't subject a winch to a type of load it is not designed for.

I do agree with what Jimi stated with that when accepting a tow I would use the primary winches as bracing points for a bridle - but that would not be usual use.

Winches were not designed to accept the snatch loads experienced. I would fit a dedicated cleat.

 

[Aja]

Re: Winches as anchorage points

Might have been a one off. I was lying alongside the pontoon in Tarbert. Another boat came alongside and made fast when I was not on board and placed a bowline over my genoa winch to his stern cleat.

All I know is that when I came back to the boat the line was tight and the winch rocked on the spindle. Fishing boat come and go all the time and generate a fair bit of wash.

I didn't say anything to the owner as I have myself used this method in the past, and just accepted the damage.

My point is that I would not now use a winch as a cleat as they are not designed for snatch loads. Something which could easily happen in the circumstances I have described above.

Price of a cleat? £50 max. Price of a new winch?