Clarisse Cremer.

[Frogmogman]

Massive own goal by banque populaire in dropping Clarisse Cremer as the skipper for their Vendée Globe campaign.

Also, I think, a mistake by the organizers to drop automatic qualification for finishers of the previous event.

The ‘motherhood penalty’? Controversy as Vendée Globe skipper Clarisse Cremer loses sponsor - Yachting World

 

[doug748]

Look like Bank Populaire could either bin their large investment and withdraw from the race, or get a new helm. Not a great range of options.

 

[flaming]

Look like Bank Populaire could either bin their large investment and withdraw from the race, or get a new helm. Not a great range of options.

Not really….

It makes no difference at all whether or not they swap out their skipper at this point, whoever it is has to do the qualifying races and will still face the same issues of pecking order in the miles done for qualifying.
In effect BP are actually suggesting that they think Clarice is less likely than a new skipper to actually complete those races etc.
Given her past performances, including a second place in the mini transact, and her very very strong performance in the last Vendée it cannot be because they doubt her ability. It can only be because they think being a mother will impact her chances.
Which isn’t very 2023….

 

[doug748]

"............... it cannot be because they doubt her ability. It can only be because they think being a mother will impact her chances."

Or because they feel the missing season will be too much of a handicap to qualification. Or rather, too much of a gamble to back.

 

[Roberto]

Or because they feel the missing season will be too much of a handicap to qualification. Or rather, too much of a gamble to back.

+1
Finish of last VG, CC discusses with BP about their common future. A contract is signed eyeing VG 2024 so take part in the necessary races + necessary mileage (new rules for qualifying were discussed in 2020 and approved by everyone in 2021, races/mileage requirements to be fulfilled between 2021 and June 2024, three year period ).
Early 2023, basically one year left, despite all the races held in 2021 and 2022 no skippers having taken part in most of them has qualified yet: CC has not accumulated any "points" and is not yet ready to participate in any event.
As a sponsor, what would you do?

PS BP is one of the main French sailing sponsors, from ocean racing to Optimists, most likely having agreements with an even number of men and women athletes, many in the age when people have children, how come it's the first time there is all this fuss? How many women took part in the VG/ocean racing and had children without loudly letting the rest of the world know? Discrimination in sailing? One of the very few sports where where women and men can compete in the same category?
CC presents herself as "Digital entrepreneur" (/euse), a very good sailor and very good at handling modern media too.

 

[flaming]

"............... it cannot be because they doubt her ability. It can only be because they think being a mother will impact her chances."

Or because they feel the missing season will be too much of a handicap to qualification. Or rather, too much of a gamble to back.

The point is that whatever skipper they put in place now is in exactly the same situation. If they thought a missing season was an issue they should have changed last year.
The only logical conclusion is that they think she will not be at the same level this season as she has been.

 

[doug748]

The point is that whatever skipper they put in place now is in exactly the same situation. If they thought a missing season was an issue they should have changed last year.
The only logical conclusion is that they think she will not be at the same level this season as she has been.

However:

"That’s because in the event that too many skippers qualify, spaces will be awarded to the skippers with the most miles sailed in all the IMOCA Globe Series races from the 2021 Transat Jacques Vabre onwards (in any boat). These are the races that Cremer hasn’t been able to build miles in over the past two years whilst pregnant and since giving birth in November 2022."

Plus the disadvantage she will bring from not being in competition for a considerable time.

Looks like the bank have not handled it well, however it does not look like a black and white issue to me either.

.

 

[flaming]

However:

"That’s because in the event that too many skippers qualify, spaces will be awarded to the skippers with the most miles sailed in all the IMOCA Globe Series races from the 2021 Transat Jacques Vabre onwards (in any boat). These are the races that Cremer hasn’t been able to build miles in over the past two years whilst pregnant and since giving birth in November 2022."

Plus the disadvantage she will bring from not being in competition for a considerable time.

Looks like the bank have not handled it well, however it does not look like a black and white issue to me either.

.

You’re missing the point…

Whatever skipper they put in now has also missed those races. And also hasn’t been competing in IMOCAs… Nobody that they drop in now is ahead of Clarice, has a better chance than her. Unless they think that she won’t be capable of performing at the level she had previously.

 

[doug748]

You’re missing the point…

Whatever skipper they put in now has also missed those races. And also hasn’t been competing in IMOCAs… Nobody that they drop in now is ahead of Clarice, has a better chance than her. Unless they think that she won’t be capable of performing at the level she had previously.

Nobody is guaranteed to perform at the level they have previously, technical problems, misadventure at sea, loss of form, or injury are all possible. Should this befall them, with Clarice at the helm, they might well be prey to the mysterious wild card procedure or have to fall back on the miles raced since 2021 by which criteria CC will obviously fail to quality.

This may well be the truth of the matter, the Bank's fig leaf, or they might just want rid of her. I suspect it is all academic, after the usual media teacup, a way will be found. Mark my words and give me a broadside if I am wrong.

.

 

[flaming]

But the point is that anyone who is substituted is also subject to the same thing, and also hasn’t raced miles since 21….

 

[Roberto]

The point is that whatever skipper they put in place now is in exactly the same situation.

She said she is not ready to sail right now, the post partum recovery was going well but she needs some more time.

Anyway, my personal interest in such public characters drops to zero very quickly I'll leave it at that, best luck to her and to BP.

 

[doug748]

But the point is that anyone who is substituted is also subject to the same thing, and also hasn’t raced miles since 21….

Journalism is an inexact art but the reports I have read state that miles completed in "any boat" would count in the final tally.

Bank Populaire would therefore be constrained to pick someone who is i) Unattached at the moment and ii) Has raced regularly and clocked up miles. A couple of names have been put forward.

On a wider note, it seems to me, that all three parties have cocked up in one way or another:

The racing body should have seen this coming miles away. If leading figure had a harrowing health problem, bravely overcome, and missed a chunk of qualifying, the moral case would be similar. It is not hard to think or other examples.

The Bank should have been on top of it and applied direct and veiled pressure a year ago or at the last gasp gone public and thrown the organising body under the bus.

Dabbling with Facebook is a blunt weapon, the sailor has probably made few new friends at Bank Populaire. It might have been better to display more loyalty and deflect criticism away from her former sponsors and towards an unimaginative rules committee.

.

 

[flaming]

The VG press release basically threw BP under the bus, by saying that Clarice was very likely to qualify, and if she didn’t she’s an ideal candidate for a wild card…

 

[Buck Turgidson]

You’re missing the point…

Whatever skipper they put in now has also missed those races. And also hasn’t been competing in IMOCAs… Nobody that they drop in now is ahead of Clarice, has a better chance than her. Unless they think that she won’t be capable of performing at the level she had previously.

Lots of skippers have qualification miles that will count even if they change boat. They only need 2 races in the new boat but the 40th ranked sailor has nearly 3000 qualification miles whereas Clarice has none and therefore would be playing catch up to everyone with qualifying miles above her.

 

[Buck Turgidson]

Journalism is an inexact art but the reports I have read state that miles completed in "any boat" would count in the final tally.

Bank Populaire would therefore be constrained to pick someone who is i) Unattached at the moment and ii) Has raced regularly and clocked up miles. A couple of names have been put forward.

On a wider note, it seems to me, that all three parties have cocked up in one way or another:

The racing body should have seen this coming miles away. If leading figure had a harrowing health problem, bravely overcome, and missed a chunk of qualifying, the moral case would be similar. It is not hard to think or other examples.

The Bank should have been on top of it and applied direct and veiled pressure a year ago or at the last gasp gone public and thrown the organising body under the bus.

Dabbling with Facebook is a blunt weapon, the sailor has probably made few new friends at Bank Populaire. It might have been better to display more loyalty and deflect criticism away from her former sponsors and towards an unimaginative rules committee.

.

I like most of this but with my helmet firmly on and chinstrap tight I would say that taking time away to have a child is a lifestyle choice whereas a "harrowing health problem" isn't. I don't deny any woman or mans right to chose family first but it is a choice with consequences and one we have all made in the past and/or will make in the future.

 

[ridgy]

Seems like BP and the lady have been in conversation about this for quite some time and that BP know something we don't.
This is elite sport and BP are in it to win it, not to provide this lady with her chosen lifestyle under her own terms.

 

[doug748]

Seems like BP and the lady have been in conversation about this for quite some time and that BP know something we don't.
This is elite sport and BP are in it to win it, not to provide this lady with her chosen lifestyle under her own terms.

Thing is, we don't know what conversations took place at the time. The gap may have looked like a good time to expand the family, maybe BP agreed? It seems only the change in rules meant that Cremer was not guaranteed a place on the start line.

All parties should take a two turn penalty, I reckon.

.

 

[Kukri]

Thing is, we don't know what conversations took place at the time. The gap may have looked like a good time to expand the family, maybe BP agreed? It seems only the change in rules meant that Cremer was not guaranteed a place on the start line.

All parties should take a two turn penalty, I reckon.

.

That’s my understanding.

It seems it’s perhaps more the fault of the race committee than the sponsor.

The simple solution is to give CC the wild card now - this is surely what it’s for?

 

[benjenbav]

…
This is elite sport and BP are in it to win it…

I think most sponsors are in it to make themselves look good and sell more units.
I’m not sure this one will succeed in so doing.

 

[benjenbav]

If I were part of the VG organising team I think I might already have visited mes learned amis on the topic of Art 21 of the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights and be expecting inbound traffic…