Doghousekeeper
Well-Known Member
Since when was injured more dangerous than dead?
Clam boat capsize - Ardnamurchan
- Thread starter bilbobaggins
- Start date
Since when was injured more dangerous than dead?
jimmcgee
Well-Known Member
so your inside an overturned boat with an auto lifejacket on , how do you get out ?
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
You've failed to grasp his point.
I'll try to spell it out. All figures made up for example purposes.
LW is saying that if (say) 10,000 fishermen all wore life jackets all the time: that might save 2 lives. However it might cost 7 lives in people getting mashed by machinery.
Say those 10,000 give up on LJs. It will cost 2 lives. But it will save 7.
WHo's to say for sure that wearing an LJ is more dangerous than not but that's the point being made spelled out for you.
HTH.
DownWest
Well-Known Member
JimMc,
I don't have an auto, I would rather risk the unconcious bit in exchange for the choice of when to inflate. Having had a long swim when the LJ failed it tends to concentrate the mind on priorities.
A
I don't have an auto, I would rather risk the unconcious bit in exchange for the choice of when to inflate. Having had a long swim when the LJ failed it tends to concentrate the mind on priorities.
A
claymore
Well-Known Member
Come on
3 men have gone. Fathers, sons, husbands,lovers
forget lifejackets and the rest of it - just semantics.
Could it have been prevented? Of course
Will it happen again? Of course
Its the price of fish.
3 men have gone. Fathers, sons, husbands,lovers
forget lifejackets and the rest of it - just semantics.
Could it have been prevented? Of course
Will it happen again? Of course
Its the price of fish.
Doghousekeeper
Well-Known Member
Nonsense. I think I've grasped his point exactly. So too has Prof Mike Tipton who is probably the most respected expert in sea survival. Lifejackets save lives and should be worn. Accidents with machinery are caused by a different form of carelessness and that needs to be addressed too.
Doghousekeeper
Well-Known Member
What a load of rubbish. Do you say the same thing about seatbelts in cars?
lw395
Well-Known Member
Lot of truth in that. A lifejacket is a pretty poor substitute for keeping the boat right way up and floating. We should be looking at root causes not palliative aids.
lw395
Well-Known Member
I trust you wear one at all times on cross channel ferries or on aircraft over water?
How many people drown from river banks compared with fishing boats?
Some people have an excessive need to tell other people how to go about their lives.
Doghousekeeper
Well-Known Member
It's not one or the other. Unless you look at both, more people will die. Bottom line is, we simply can't guarantee keeping any boat the right way up, so we have to be properly prepared for the consequences
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Your post demonstrates otherwise.
Doghousekeeper
Well-Known Member
Yep, I agree with you on that point - fishermen should wear lifejackets if there is a risk of them falling in. Good point, well made
Robin
Well-Known Member
Absolutely. They must be kept in harbour and prevented from going to sea at all costs as they are obviously quite unable to make such safety decisions on their own. Any person who ventures out to sea without wearing a full survival suit, lifejacket with crotch strap and spray mask, harness gloves and boots is a risk that should not be allowed. We must have a new government advisory issued at least on this.
David_Jersey
Well-Known Member
Nicely put.
jason -and the arguenauts
Well-Known Member
This reminds me of all the excuses I used to get from my workforce for not wearing their safety helmets, or their ear muffs or even safety boots. If not watched they used to bodge a bypass to the safety guards on machines. Overload a forklift cos it was easier than using a crane. You see the same thing every day with the "pros" on building sites.
It was all bull and so is this.
Doghousekeeper
Well-Known Member
So that would include the coastguard and the RNLI? Unless of course you think their "Useless unless worn" campaign on actually wearing lifejackets (as all lifeboat crew do) instead of hiding them in a locker somewhere - assuming that they are even on board - is a waste of time and money??
Or perhaps it was just a typo and you really meant "a need to tell other people how to save their lives"
toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
IMHO fixed rules hardly ever work, and with regard to safety they can be lethal.
What if the fisherman is in a Dinghy? Can he wear a buoyancy aid or does it have to be a life jacket? If not what if he gets in a fast sailing dinghy? Can he wear a buoyancy aid then or does it still have to be a life jacket? What if after an hour of fishing off the bank wearing his life jacket he fancies a swim. Should he take his life jacket off to swim or keep it on? Supposing I'm fishing off my yacht wearing a lifejacket with the engine going towing a lure. A bag becomes tangled round the prop and I need to dive down to clear it. (This has happened to me.) Can I dive in without a life jacket or do I need to keep it on? When I climb out wet in my trunks do I need to put my life jacket back on straight away? Do I need to put it back on if I plan to go for a swim again in 30 minutes? What if I fall in freezing water with a LJ on. There's no ladder and I need to take my lifejacket off to climb out onto the nearest pontoon. Can I take it off to get out quicker or is it safer to stay in the water with the LJ on?
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toad_oftoadhall
Well-Known Member
Well said.
David_Jersey
Well-Known Member
I dunno about in your part of the planet, but over here these folks aren't sent by the Pope to say when and how to wipe yer own ar#e
Thinking for yourself - vastly under-rated................
lw395
Well-Known Member
Theres truth in that for sure, but has anyone done a proper job of asking?
Some of the things you refer to are done to save time, under a lot of pressure to increase productivity. Some of it is macho stupidity for sure.
No safety aids replace care and common sense though, like all the safety stuff in cars has not reduced the death rate very much.
I had a look at the prof Tipton stuff, what you need is a thermal flotation suit it seems.
Or of course to be comfortable with knowing you are risking your life.
