chichester yatch club hooligans

[banana]

Re: That\'s better!!

i am fairly common.

i have yacht that has a long keel and is very hard to steer in close company. last year and this year got caught in the fed week at the mouth of the harbour. i have also been a dinghy sailor and have a fair idea of what they do and where they are going. it was still very difficult and some dinghy sailors still didnt appreciate. there are always wankers in all fields. it did not mean all dinghy sailors are wankers.
i have raced at chi yacht club. instructions to the racers are to keep clear in the channel and wath the big boats. although they do say that boats with engines can stop. and most of your big mobos have bow thrusters anyway.
its good practice anyway learning to drive your boat properly

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[hardy]

Re: That\'s better!!

I agree with you

<hr width=100% size=1>KISMET HARDY

 

[Divemaster1]

Re: That\'s better!!

i am not going to get dragged into this sail vs motor discussion here, as I am fortiunate to come from an environment where both are respected, and also moor in a harbour where we have mutual respect for each other and help out where we can... however, the following statement ..

"...... although they do say that boats with engines can stop. and most of your big mobos have bow thrusters anyway. its good practice anyway learning to drive your boat properly "

I found a bit strange .... (presume we are talking about a narrow, heavily trafficated channel here)
a) how does a bow thruster help me stop the boat ? ... 15 tonnes of it in my case ... surely it will only turn the boat around its axis and create havoc for the
ones behind me..
b) how does anyone "know" that I have one without having seen me using it? Surely this is a dangerous asumption to make, as I do not have one (45 Ft MOBO)
c) good practice it may be and yes we should be able of manouvering our boat "properly". But should not all seafarers be able of handling their boats properly and with due respect for others... and this includes keeping appropriate distance in all cases.

If I recall right when leaving Chichester Marina one day early in September, we were 5 boats in the lock, leaving with little water under my keel ( my props rotate @ 1.6 M ), I would have hated the thought of having to do a urgent stop and manouver in this channel, causing untold havoc behind me as two of the boats were sailing boats with less manouvering abilities, and probably similar draft, motoring along with us, just because someone in a sailing dinghy held on to the "rules".
I could have stopped ... swung around and kept the boat still against the flooding tide without any problems, as I know how to handle my boat .... but could the sailing crafts behind me have done the same ??

Ths should be all about mutual and common sense ... not a blame culture... and as you say, there are w@nkers on both sides of the fence..

Happy boating all...

<hr width=100% size=1>Regards,

Alf

 

[DRH]

I submitted a post a few weeks ago when we saw as near a miss as you'd like between a racing dinghy & a small cruiser near the marina & as I said then the skipper slowed to a halt but the sub-intelligents in/on the dinghy were determined not to stop or change course.
Arrogant bunch aren't they.

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[fireball]

Sorry ... shall we get written permission to sail in "your" water then?!
Arrogant lot rn't u.


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[MidlandsOnSea]

It's a shame to let this debate descend into tribal warfare. Personally, I'm only able to enjoy sailing a mobo now because of previous time spent getting experience on dinghies and then sailing yachts. When I first took out dinghies, I made a real hash of things for a while (still do sometimes) and probably benefitted from someone more skilful taking avoiding action. There are errant types in both camps. It's a bit like being a motorist on busy roads with cyclists - a bit of defensive driving from the motorists and a bit of awareness from the cyclists is needed.

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[KevB]

"Sorry ... shall we get written permission to sail in "your" water then?!"

No, not necessary. Just follow the ColRegs......



<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://static.photobox.co.uk/public/images/45/99/10714599.s.jpg?ch=97&rr=16:00:39>Nirvana</A>

 

[fireball]

The stand on vessel should not alter course or speed - otherwise how is the other vessel supposed to keep clear?!
Who is the stand on vessel depends on the local situation and I am not implying that the dinghy sailors have the right to run across the channel come what may ....

Comming out the marina, you don't get a lot of choice of where to go ...
Comming into the marina you've got a nice big basin to mill around in if there are a load of dinghies trudging across the channel....

I'm glad I sail & motor further down the harbour!

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[Questor]

Totally agree with KevB

Doesn't matter what you're in, follow the collision regs, coupled with a bit of common sense, and problem sorted.

Can't help but feel with dinghy sailors though, the "don't mind them, they'll get out of our way" syndrome, drummed into them from the age of three doesn't help.


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[Questor]

Totally agree with KevB

Doesn't matter what you're in, follow the collision regs, coupled with a bit of common sense, and problem sorted.

Can't help but feel with dinghy sailors though, the "don't mind them, they'll get out of our way" syndrome, drummed into them from the age of three really doesn't help.


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[banana]

Re: That\'s better!!

er a bow thruster doesnt help you stop the boat.

is it poor seamanship to leave with only just enough under the keel to get by and not give yourself a second chance?

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[fireball]

So to start with, dinghy sailors are all stupid arrogant w's ... and now your feeling sorry for them as it is inbred into them?

It strikes me that some Chi Marina users have very little or no tollerance of other users in the harbour.

Picture this:
You have entered into the club series, you turn up in a F3-4 northerly on a loverly saturday morning ... the race officer has set a first mark on the other side of the channel into Chi basin. There are 20 of you on the start line ... 5 - 4 - 1- Go!
And off you go - on a beat to the first mark ... now - do you a) sail way off course to miss the channel entirely or b) cross the channel with the other boats knowing that it will only take 5 or so minutes for the whole fleet to be clear and out of the way?

What I was talking about earlier - about spacial awareness is that it is every skippers duty to be aware of his surroundings..... I've sailed through a start line going through the northern channel into southampton water, getting hurled abuse - it was the race officers error for setting the start line right across the channel - BUT - they were not under starters orders - we'd checked the committee boat for flags - so didn't worry (38' against a bunch of Lasers - both under sail and we were on starboard!)

Another occaision I was motoring into Bembridge harbour and there were some RS Varios sailing around in the narrow entrance - one call about manouvering in restricted water followed by the word "please" was followed by smiles and waves from both parties ...

Oh - and don't forget - when you go aground on a falling tide it could well be dinghy crew manning a patrol boat who could pull you off - if you'd not sworn at them ...
on the other foot - they might well need your help when their mast breaks or the wind drops to nothing on a fast ebb tide - if they'd not made you run aground last week!

You'll still get some persistant ones who think they own the water - so make a note of their sail number and call up the race officer (usually chl 37 - but check the harbour fed book) and lodge a protest under the col regs - I would hear such a protest and CYC race officers might just be waiting for you to prompt the situation.

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[Divemaster1]

Re: That\'s better!!

"er a bow thruster doesnt help you stop the boat. "

Well, no, I agree ... but the implications of your comments were that it appeared to do, and that it was the asumption that "most" had one ... how does one tell??

"is it poor seamanship to leave with only just enough under the keel to get by and not give yourself a second chance?"

Perhaps it is .... we gave the our metrics to the lock keeper and asked for guidance before leaving, with a couple of sailors, who pulled as much as we did.... and we did have min 50 cm to go on + flooding tide at 6:30 am, so not much traffic to worry about ... I would have waited for as long as it would take, but lock keeper and marina office said I had plenty of water in the channell, backed up by the sailors who I also spoke with. I made the point that I could have handled the situation, but not sure about the two sailors behind me who were far less manouverable that I was...
Cannot say I was 100% comfortable with the situation with this little water projected to be under the keel, but took and acted upon the advise from people with far more local knowledge than what I had. So not a question of no "second chance"... 50cm under the keel is OK in my book, in such sheltered waters, when you have the advise and knowledge we were given, with the manouverability of the boat in question. Would not dream of doing it where I am moored now where we have had several metres of swell in the at the outer breakwater for a prolonged period.... and where the swell rarely ceases to less than 50 cm....

<hr width=100% size=1>Regards,

Alf

 

[KevB]

"Picture this:
You have entered into the club series, you turn up in a F3-4 northerly on a loverly saturday morning ... the race officer has set a first mark on the other side of the channel into Chi basin. There are 20 of you on the start line ... 5 - 4 - 1- Go!
And off you go - on a beat to the first mark ... now - do you a) sail way off course to miss the channel entirely or b) cross the channel with the other boats knowing that it will only take 5 or so minutes for the whole fleet to be clear and out of the way?"

Why put the racing mark in a place where is causes the dinghy's to cross a narrow channel when they have all of upstream of the channel towards Dell Quay?

Picture this:
Sunday afternoon and the lock is on freeflow - 200+ boats are returning to the marina aiming to make freeflow when the queue of incoming boats is stopped due to someone waiting 5 mins for a dinghy fleet to cross the channel. After the fleet has passed a queue has now formed where before all boats were nicely spaced. A few minutes pass when again the inbound boats are stopped whilst the dinghy fleet make their way back across the narrow channel. Now there is complete mayhem for the returning boats just because the "racing official" couldn't put his marks in a more socially aware place.

There is no need for the dinghies to cross the channel unless they are leaving or returning to the club. It makes safety sense for them to race slightly elsewhere.

the ColRegs say.....
A vessel shall not cross a narrow passage or fairway if such crossing impedes the passage of a vessel which can safely navigate only within such channel or fairway. The latter vessel may use the sound signal prescribed in Rule 34(d) if in doubt as to the intention of the crossing vessel

It doesn't need any more explanation.



<hr width=100% size=1><A target="_blank" HREF=http://static.photobox.co.uk/public/images/45/99/10714599.s.jpg?ch=97&rr=16:00:39>Nirvana</A>

 

[boatone]

Chichester Harbour Conservancy
BYELAWS RELATING TO NAVIGATION
4. The master of a vessel navigating the harbour shall navigate the vessel with care and caution and in such manner as shall not cause annoyance to the occupants of
any other vessel or cause damage or danger to any other vessel or to any moorings or other property.

10. The Regulations for Preventing Collisions at Sea
now in force, or as amended from time to time, made by
Orders in Council in pursuance of the Merchant Shipping
Act 1894 shall apply to the harbour and to the vessels
navigating and being therein, with the exception that
vessels secured to permanent moorings in the harbour
shall not be required to display lights.

So there you have it...........make a formal complaint to the HM that a specific vessel is in breach of the bye laws....that should stir it up a bit.......



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[Questor]

"It strikes me that some Chi Marina users have very little or no tollerance of other users in the harbour."

Does this include the RS600's & Laser5000's that aggressively hool around busy anchorages well in excess of the 8 knot speed limit, such as East Head, where visability is somewhat restricted due to the masses of boats at anchor? No wurries about hitting them, as they do or the odd swimmer, while only a few yards away, there's open sea. No, is your answer. They're probably from another sailing club.



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[fireball]

Now there is complete mayhem for the returning boats just because the "racing official" couldn't put his marks in a more socially aware place.

There you have it ... it is the race officer that has set the course, so bleating away on here and not talking to the officers of the club will get you nowhere!

Picture this .... Stop is a speed as well .... you (and everyone else) does not have the right to free flow passage - 5 minutes (or so!) waiting for the dinghy fleet to get out of the way is hardly the end of the world. Putting yourself in a restricted channel when it is obviously conjested is just plain bad seamanship - especially with that short channel!

Safety is the responsibility of the skipper of the vessel.

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[rickp]

Don't believe the speed limit applies to the blow along things.

Rick

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[gandy]

"Don't believe the speed limit applies to the blow along things."

I wondered about that. Why not, though?

Tony S

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[hardy]

no wash apparantly

<hr width=100% size=1>KISMET HARDY