Cheap charter business?

[Mark-1]

Corribees, Achilles

I'd regularly hire a small bilge keeler off you in the Solent Area at a budget price. I've looked and couldn't find such a boat for hire for the obvious reasons.

Not sure you could make a business of it though for those same reasons.

I've PMd you, as well.

 

[Mark-1]

HI hear what you are saying but personally, having chartered a small boat with others, I disagree. I would much prefer to charter a small boat with Mel than share on a bigger boat and I suppose we are chasing a niche market and need to work out if it is big enough and if so then how we could structure the business so we can make a living.

I agree, and I don't think demand would be your problem. Some people would want to hire a shoal draught cheap boat from you. I would, and I bet plenty of owners of 45 foot deep fin keelers dream of a night in Ashlet Creek or a BBQ sitting on the sand at East Head.

The problem would be providing a coded, clean, reliable boat and still making money. The second problem would be scaling it to live off the business. I've no doubt the South can provide customers for one charter Corribee at the right price. I doubt it can support 20. (Or can it? Has anyone tried?)

 

[savageseadog]

It's the widget school of business. The pipe dream says that the widgets will cost 50p to make and will sell for one pound thereby making glorious profits. In reality there are so many costs and taxes in Britain (and most other places) that your widgets that cost 50p to make will have to sell for seven pounds to make a profit thereby ensuring you will never sell many, end of pipe dream. There's also no such thing as hobby business, most people who set off on that path end up, homeless, bankrupt and divorced.

 

[Salty John]

I don't know anything about the charter business in the Solent but I was involved with a charter business on Chesapeake Bay in the USA. We managed about 15 boats.
The boats were owned by individuals who put the boats into our fleet. They paid the dockage and they paid us to maintain the boat to the required standard - that's where I came in, I was the maintenance bloke.
Being of a business background I analysed this operation quite closely, mainly to see if it was something I'd like to do after we finished our own cruising adventure.
They grossed about $12,000 to $15,000 per boat per year. So, if you could persuade 10 owners to let you charter their boats for a season you could gross $120,000 or so. The killer is the fixed cost so you have to be brutal about passing on all costs to the individual boat owners, and they would bleat about this to the point that you had quite a turnover of boats during the year. Providing adequate insurance was a big problem in the US, maybe here also.
In a UK business environment and with the added costs of coding I would think it would be a very risky venture.
It's really quite difficult to make a business out of a passtime, hobby, passion, call it what you will. Much easier to go back to work doing what you're good at - if you're going to be in the rat race you might as well get the cheese!

 

[Nina Lucia]

Greece?

I was looking to charter similar like that in Greece or Adriatic- Croatia but no luck!

Everyone chartering big boats for more than I can really aford...

And we were looking really for small 25-27 " similar boat that we sail here in UK...

Even tried to arange for swop, week in Greece for week in Solent....

I can tell you a bit about it from my own experience of doing the same for a couple of years when Haslar Marina first opened.

We had our own boat, plus operated as managing agents for up to ten other yachts, none over 33 feet and all not new.

This was the early days of the code of practice and we very quickly learnt how to go about it to high standard but without costing the earth. Practice!

Cheap prices and high turnover was the aim. We got plenty of charters but it was hard work for not a lot of reward. It was a life of constant cleaning and maintenance with small chance of sailing. Really enjoyed it for a while, but it did wear off a bit.

Eventually, we followed the route of new bigger yachts like the rest of the herd. Made far more money, but the fun bit went.

Left and went cruising!!

 

[nimbusgb]

Ok the first question has to be. Why is coding so expensive? I've read through the requirements and I don't see why it has to be expensive. Just safe.

 

[Tranona]

I was looking to charter similar like that in Greece or Adriatic- Croatia but no luck!

Everyone chartering big boats for more than I can really aford...

And we were looking really for small 25-27 " similar boat that we sail here in UK...

Even tried to arange for swop, week in Greece for week in Solent....

Many charter operations in Greece used to offer small boats - 20 years ago 30ft was the norm and many were smaller, but that just reflected what was available and what people expected. Along came AWBs and offered substantially bigger boats for very little more money. When you work out the costs of a week's holiday for a family of 4, the actual boat may be only a third of the cost - flights, transfers, food etc making up the rest. an extra £3-400 for a much bigger and better boat is a good deal, particularly when boats are so easy to handle now.

Most of the small boats have disappeared now - Sailing Holidays are selling off theor faithful Jaguar 27s because demand has fallen and they can no longer make money out of them.

Flotilla/charter holidays are primarily holidays, not sailing activities. Why would you go to all the trouble and expense of chartering a boat that is just like your boat at home?

 

[Retired in Crete]

I was looking to charter similar like that in Greece or Adriatic- Croatia but no luck!

Everyone chartering big boats for more than I can really aford...

And we were looking really for small 25-27 " similar boat that we sail here in UK...

Even tried to arange for swop, week in Greece for week in Solent....

Have sent you a PM

John

 

[Tranona]

Ok the first question has to be. Why is coding so expensive? I've read through the requirements and I don't see why it has to be expensive. Just safe.

Typical coding costs (equipment and fees) on a 38 footer are £10-12k on a "standard" AWB. Apply that to boats that cost less than that (30-40 year old worn out 25 footers) and you see the scale of the issue.

 

[nimbusgb]

Typical coding costs (equipment and fees) on a 38 footer are £10-12k on a "standard" AWB. Apply that to boats that cost less than that (30-40 year old worn out 25 footers) and you see the scale of the issue.

But a 20 to 25 year old AWB probably has most of what's required already on board. If the OP was to start by buying 'tired' ex charter boats that had already been coded surely they are not going to re incur those charges? ( Of course the problem is that there are no ex charter 25 footers about in the first place )

So if ex charter 35' boats kept on swinging moorings are used rather than walk ons some cost savings could be made?

If it's only day sailing, take out the cooker and gas installation, save a fortune in coding charges!

 

[rhinorhino]

But a 20 to 25 year old AWB probably has most of what's required already on board. If the OP was to start by buying 'tired' ex charter boats that had already been coded surely they are not going to re incur those charges? ( Of course the problem is that there are no ex charter 25 footers about in the first place )

So if ex charter 35' boats kept on swinging moorings are used rather than walk ons some cost savings could be made?

If it's only day sailing, take out the cooker and gas installation, save a fortune in coding charges!

NO tea, steady on old boy

 

[Tranona]

But a 20 to 25 year old AWB probably has most of what's required already on board. If the OP was to start by buying 'tired' ex charter boats that had already been coded surely they are not going to re incur those charges? ( Of course the problem is that there are no ex charter 25 footers about in the first place )

So if ex charter 35' boats kept on swinging moorings are used rather than walk ons some cost savings could be made?

If it's only day sailing, take out the cooker and gas installation, save a fortune in coding charges!

You are right to an extent, but the fact that there aren't such boats around says it all (there are some in Greece - a fully fitted ready to go Jaguar 27 for £7500 for example).

However, the real issue is that, although it might seem a good idea to offer "cheap", basic boats, the reality is that nobody really wants to spend money on such things, or rather the small amounts of money they might pay would not be enough to sustain a business.

 

[Bobc]

I'm just doing a coding at the moment, and although I thought mine had most stuff, I've had to replace most stuff to be compliant. Things like:-

Lifejackets (all need to be auto gas with harness (I had manual gas with separate harnesses) Total number for crew + 2 spare.

Fire extinguishers (standard manufacturer type are no good).

Smoke alarm, emergency light, and extinguisher in each cabin (so I now have 8 in total!).

Gas alarm (£200)? Auto bilge pump (£100)? Active radar reflector (£600)?, Storm sails (£2k), 50m of anchor chain (£500)?. The list goes on.

Turn the hatches round, cover the boat in Dymo stickers, write a manual, etc...

 

[Solent Joe]

Hi All!

It’s been a while as Mel and I are just finishing our Caribbean cruise and will be back in the UK in a couple of weeks.
So I have a question and would very much like input (positive or negative).
We would like to come back to start a business and thought that a budget charter operation on or near the Solent, renting out small (22’ to 25’) and elderly yachts to people who would not normally spend the large sums required to charter a shiny Bavaria etc.
The boats would be well set up and tidy, Corribees, Achilles or the like with nice new upholstery, basic instrumentation, cooker etc....enough for a pleasant week of sailing and onboard camping rather than luxury chartering. The price would be less than a b+b and would give sailors a chance to experience a little of the cruising lifestyle, practice, make up some miles or simply potter about and catch a few mackerel.
I don’t know if this “rent a wreck” approach has been tried before in the UK but would love to know.
It seems a shame that the general public views sailing as the sport of the wealthy and it would be nice to be instrumental in introducing or encouraging sailing to as many people as possible.
Good idea or bad?

Thanks
Nick

As others have said, the high overheads means that essentially undercutting a B&B won't be feasible. However, I don't see why you should compare chartering to B&B's in the first place- they are entirely different markets.

The best way to approach this is to work backwards, calculating overheads first, then finding the cheapest average price you can charter the yachts for. Then compare this price to other charter rates in the locality, not B&B's. As long as you undercut the other charter companies, you're still making chartering more accessible, just not to the level you initially wanted. This will be extremely difficult in the Solent though, maybe look elsewhere, somewhere more picturesque(?)

If you're operating on a small scale, maybe moor the yachts on swinging moorings in Langstone Harbour or similar. Once chartered, take the yacht to your client and hand over the yacht at the shore. Only problem is finding a suitable pontoon.

However, it would be a better business model to charter other folk's yachts though. As long as you invest in building a strong, SEO'd and appealing website, this could be quite profitable.

Joe