Cheap boats in America

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jav301

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I've been looking for my next boat over the last couple of months and had just about settled for what I could afford in England and nearby. Then I made the mistake of looking at this site offering boats in America http://www.findaboat.co.uk.

Suddenly it appears I could afford something palatial. I wonder why used boats appear to be much cheaper in America. From limited experience in the Caribbean, I know that sun and warmth can degrade systems and fabric very quickly so maybe some of these boats are not the bargains they appear to be.

But why so cheap?
 
jav301 said:
But why so cheap?
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Huge market, intense competition, throwaway economy. Also lots of fat, slow slugs...the yachts, not the people ;)

As Minch wrote, it's dearer and more problematic than it appears (otherwise a bunch of entrepreneurs would be making a packet out of it.) There's also the small matter of on ocean between you and them.
If you're serious, many US-built boats of the last decade or so are RCD certified (Catalinas, Hunters, US-built Benes,, etc): there would be a good reason for targetting them.

VAT is payable at the point of entry to the EU, which would often be the Azores, where I think the rate payable is currently 18%. The tax authorities there are reputed to be somewhat more flexible in their VAT-able valuations than in, say, the UK.

P.S. You're not the first to have the same brainwave, so there are lots of previous threads on the same subject if you care to search. There is even the odd post from owners who've done what you propose.
 
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Thanks. I'm glad I asked. Didn't consider the RCD issue. I'm obviously not very skilled at searching these forums, I'll try again.

Some of the older plastic boats look great.
 
I currently own and sail a lovely US-made boat, a Sabre 42. The business for which I used to work became the UK dealer for the Sabre brand and mine was the first one imported. Passing the UK RCD requirements was fairly simple but required a number of small modifications being made at the factory in Maine. Off the top of my head these included lots of electrical changes, additional cockpit drains and a different shape of gas bottle locker. Worth it now, as the boat is great to sail.
One other factor is that the mechanical kit on board is a mixture of metric and imperial sizes, so I always wind up with the wrong set of spanners in hand!

Edit: The engine chosen was an EU-compliant Yanmar, so no problems there.
 
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Yes, reckon on adding 18 or 20% VAT to the value in Europe rather than the price paid abroad. As far as RCD is concerned, people who have tried to get a CE mark on an imported boat have given up and accepted a C or even D category (sheltered coastal waters/inland only) on boats that have crossed an ocean to get here. That's no problem for a UK registered vessel but the French for example fine their citizens very heavily for sailing beyond the official limits for their boats.
 
RCD/CE marking is the BIG show-stopper in some cases. If the engine is a US one, it may not be capable of being adapted to meet EU emissions regulations etc. And you may not put a boat into use in the EU unless it is RCD/CE marked to the regulations current on the day of import. That even means some older boats that were CE marked under older regulations, or which were never CE marked but were in use on the relevant dates in the EU can't readily be imported. It isn't the regulations in force when the boat was built that matter, but the regulations in force on the date of import into the EU.
 
What would happen if you didn't bother with RCD? Difficult to see how they can police that.

There must be some friendly non-EU territories where you can register the boat to avoid most of the hassle.
 
bedouin said:
What would happen if you didn't bother with RCD? Difficult to see how they can police that.

There must be some friendly non-EU territories where you can register the boat to avoid most of the hassle.
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Registration is irrelevant. The rules apply if you are importing the boat for use in the EU. If you are an EU resident you cannot use the boat in the EU without importing it. However, if you are a non EU resident you can apply for temporary importation which allows you up to 18 month's usage in the EU, but with restrictions on how it is used.

So no way of avoiding the hassle (well, legally anyway).
 
chwarae said:
Tom Cunliffe did it and a beautiful boat he has. Good luck.
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His case was very specific as he had all the design data to meet the RCD plus the boat had recently been fitted with an EU certified Yanmar engine, so two of the major barriers to certification were removed.

This is unlikely to apply to many of the older boats that look so attractive, until you actually see them and do the sums!
 
bedouin said:
What would happen if you didn't bother with RCD? Difficult to see how they can police that.
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The boat will be assessed on arrival in the EU. This will be for value (i.e. how much VAT is due), but it's running a risk to hope that RCD status will be overlooked.

bedouin said:
There must be some friendly non-EU territories where you can register the boat to avoid most of the hassle.
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Country of registry is irrelevant. If kept in the EU by an EU citizen, VAT will be due and RCD regulations will apply. RCD also applies in EEA countries. (Although, oddly enough, RCD doesn't apply on the Isle of Man and there seem to be no barriers to sailing in EU waters with an IoM-registered vessel...all a bit anomalous)
 
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The cheapest EU VAT rate is 17% in Luxembourg (not ideal for yachts!) then Malta at 18%. Britain's rate at 20% is low in comparison to most.

I quite like the idea of buying a boat in the States and keeping it there. Ideal long term winter getaway if kept in Florida.
 
E39mad said:
I quite like the idea of buying a boat in the States and keeping it there. Ideal long term winter getaway if kept in Florida.
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A (former?)_ member of the forum used to do that - kept his boat on Chesapeake bay - but I think you need a fair amount of free time to go sailing to make it worth while
 
E39mad said:
The cheapest EU VAT rate is 17% in Luxembourg (not ideal for yachts!) then Malta at 18%. Britain's rate at 20% is low in comparison to most.
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As said, in the Azores it's also 18%, and a trifle more convenient.

bedouin said:
Yes - depends on when it was last imported into EU
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Sorry, that's wrong. It depends on whether it's been exported from the EU which, if it's bought in the States, it has been. VAT would be due on re-import, even if the same vessel began life in the EU and was previously "deemed exempt by reason of age". Of course, in the latter case, judicious choice of which documents to show might get you round it.
 
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