Cheap boats in America

macd said:
As said, in the Azores it's also 18%, and a trifle more convenient.



Sorry, that's wrong. It depends on whether it's been exported from the EU which, if it's bought in the States, it has been. VAT would be due on re-import, even if the same vessel began life in the EU and was previously "deemed exempt by reason of age". Of course, in the latter case, judicious choice of which documents to show might get you round it.
Click to expand...
No - VAT is due on IMPORT rather than EXPORT. So VAT is due depending on the date on which it was last imported into EU - that is independent of whether it has been imported or exported before. It is irrelevant whether the boat has previously been exported (except to the extent that you can't re-import it unless you have exported it).

I think (but I am not sure) that RCD is different and relates to the date on which the boat was first used in EU - i.e. if an RCD compliant (or exempt) boat is exported then there is no problem reimporting it
 
bedouin said:
No - VAT is due on IMPORT rather than EXPORT. So VAT is due depending on the date on which it was last imported into EU.
I'm not sure you're correct. My understanding is any boat of any age, purchased whilst it's physically outside of the EU on the date the purchase is deemed to have taken place, carries a VAT liability whether it's had VAT paid before - even if it's had VAT paid a dozen times previously, on importation or reimportation VAT will be due again.

That maybe what you said and I haven't understood it! And of course I might be wrong!
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
bedouin said:
No - VAT is due on IMPORT rather than EXPORT. So VAT is due depending on the date on which it was last imported into EU - that is independent of whether it has been imported or exported before. It is irrelevant whether the boat has previously been exported (except to the extent that you can't re-import it unless you have exported it).

I think (but I am not sure) that RCD is different and relates to the date on which the boat was first used in EU - i.e. if an RCD compliant (or exempt) boat is exported then there is no problem reimporting it
Click to expand...

Sorry, I wasn't altogether clear but you misunderstand me. I think we're pretty much saying the same thing.
Of course VAT is due on import. But, as you say, before a boat can be imported (unless it's spent all it's life outside the EU), it has to be exported. A sale of a VAT-paid boat taking place outside the EU is deemed by the authorities to be an export.

I'm not sure what you mean by "So VAT is due depending on the date on which it was last imported into EU." It's not the date of import which triggers VAT, but the fact of import (or, in offficial parlance, the VATable event).

Your original statement was in response to a question about the age of the boat, which of course has no bearing: if it was exported then VAT becomes due on re-import, whether or not it was previously "deemed VAT paid". Indeed, never mind the date of VAT introduction: this would be so for Noah's Arc. (Although you might get away with it if you claimed it was an antique ;))

RCD is indeed different. For starters, it's not an EU requirement, but EEA. If a boat was compliant once (or was an RCD exception), it will retain RCD compliance on export/re-import.
 
Last edited:
Our Beneteau Oceanis 36CC was built in France and exported to the USA in 1998. We bought it in the USA and it is EU compliant at least to 1998 rules. It is a great boat but would be a PITA to adapt to EU use. The engine is a EU Yanmar ( subtle differences) but the electrics would drive you mad, installed for 30-50A 110V use and USCG regulations which are anal in the extreme would be easier to rip it all out and reinstall a civilised world 220V system The surveyor we used for our purchase in Florida has a sideline in buying to order and shipping boats to the EU. Beware lots of familiar EU make boats are listed over here but were built in the USA, including many Benteaus, these US built ones will have all imperial dimensioned stuff not metric ( we had to special order a replacement metric shaft seal for ours as the US built boats had smaller diameter shafts, same with the prop nut anodes also different sizes. If I need spares for the Yanmar 3GM30 I have to quote the engine serial number to make sure the dealer( I found an understanding one) sends the right EU Yanmar bits like replacement impellers and seals as the water pumps are different on the US installed Yanmars, all doable but a bit of a PITA and the reverse would occur with a US built boat in the EU. Most US built Bennys were built for the US/Caribbean charter market too, some may be shallower draught versions too to suit the shallow waters around Florida and the Bahamas which are popular charter cruising areas.
 
Last edited:
Robin said:
...the electrics would drive you mad, installed for 30-50A 110V use and USCG regulations which are anal in the extreme would be easier to rip it all out and reinstall a civilised world 220V system...
Click to expand...
Anyone happen to know what the RCD / CE markign requirements are regarding electrical systems ? Am I right in saying that there are no actual legally enforceable standards for non-inland-water boats, in the UK at least ?

Boo2
 
Boo2 said:
Anyone happen to know what the RCD / CE markign requirements are regarding electrical systems ? Am I right in saying that there are no actual legally enforceable standards for non-inland-water boats, in the UK at least ?
Click to expand...

You could look it up: the entire RCD directive is available on line. Note that it was substantially amended a few years ago, so the 1998 version wouldn't give the whole story. Note also that you'd lose the will to live before you were even halfway thrugh it.
 
ISO 10133.2001 for low voltage DC systems and ISO 13297.2001 for AC systems.

Good information including comparison with US ABYC and CG standards on a pdf from

ICOMIA: titled Global conformity guidelines.
 
Somehow I came into possession of a UK made boat here on the Texas Gulf Coast! 1967 Hurley Silhouette MKIII. Lovely boat, just got done doing some restorations...joy to sail, and quite capable offshore. I would have no qualms sailing from Texas to the Caribbean/Central American on her. Sorry to be off topic...boats sure do get around!
 
Robin you wrote
but the electrics would drive you mad, installed for 30-50A 110V use and USCG regulations which are anal in the extreme would be easier to rip it all out and reinstall a civilised world 220V system
what don't you like about the USCG regs? I thought they were fairly simple if rather out of date, and almost no inforcement so who really care anyway , just do it right, and why do you like 220v ? 110v is much safer to have on docks etc. ( less power I know but enough to )
Warren
 
bedouin said:
What would happen if you didn't bother with RCD? Difficult to see how they can police that.
Click to expand...

In theory, all sorts of horrible things. In practice, unless you rock up to a marina in the Solent with a huge shiny boat flying the stars and strips - and even then it's dubious - the chances of anybody caring are effectively zero. Trading standards people seem to have better things to do with their time than trawl round marinas and harbours checking to see whether any of the boats there were ever registered abroad.

I will now be told that this is terrible, terrible advice and that RCD compliance must be viewed with the utmost seriousness. Which I will believe when anyone can produce an example of a modest private import being checked.
 
JumbleDuck said:
I will now be told that this is terrible, terrible advice and that RCD compliance must be viewed with the utmost seriousness. Which I will believe when anyone can produce an example of a modest private import being checked.
Click to expand...

I'm not going to tell you you're terrible, JD, but as I wrote earlier imports are checked, at least for value*. I doubt it's especially rigorous, but you never know what else it might turn up. But overall, I'm sure you're right that RCD compliance is a non-issue to the authorities.
However, there's also the matter of the resale value of the boat, in which the want of an RCD may well be an issue.
If that doesn't bother anyone, go for it.

* unless, of course, you were to ignore VAT liability, too...and you wouldn't be the first.
 
Last edited:
Warpdrive said:
Robin you wrote
but the electrics would drive you mad, installed for 30-50A 110V use and USCG regulations which are anal in the extreme would be easier to rip it all out and reinstall a civilised world 220V system
what don't you like about the USCG regs? I thought they were fairly simple if rather out of date, and almost no inforcement so who really care anyway , just do it right, and why do you like 220v ? 110v is much safer to have on docks etc. ( less power I know but enough to )
Warren
Click to expand...

When we bought our current boat it was wired for 110V and the original and previous owner had added all sorts to it. We had all new electronics fitted and the installer we employed refused to do anything until all the previous owner's mods were first removed there was AC lighting in the engine space he said was a fire risk if it got wet. I said if those lights get wet I'm in the liferaft but he won I lost and now I have judst the 12V lights there. IT was also wired so the shore cords could be attached bow or stern which involved a changeover at a junction box in the engine space. That all had to come out, wiring colours and sizes were not 'to code'. But it all worked! After he finished 'doing it all to the code' I had to have him back multiple times to get it working again but in the original form only connections at the stern and no extra lighting. Oh and he blew up the original 3KW inverter in the process which of course was not his fault so the replacement was at my cost although he 'generously' discounted it by $500 over list price.:rolleyes:

Otherwise the 110 V requires huge diameter cables that are hard to store, and cost a fortune. We have two x 30A cords to power our boat, but since our marina charges monthly by the cord type and number connected we have just one routinely connected and have a splitter at the boat end to divide between the two inputs. We have to do that since some circuits are on one input ans some on the other. for example the main Aircon is on one, with the AC water pump for it whilst the owners cabin aircon is on the other circuit, but you have to have the main one on or the cooling water pump doesn't run. But heck it is all 'to code' Back in the UK we had inexpensive extension cables that would go 50 yards if needed and stored on a wind up reel, the cables were a reasonable size and easily stowed. We didn't run high amp stuff like aircons, microwave etc I suppose but could still run a 2Kw fan heater if needed in winter and a dehumidifier without setting the cables alight. When in a 'transient' slip, (VisItor berth) here we need to carry an extra ( and v expensive 'Y' splitter To be able to run from a 50A connection on shore to two our two 30 A ones as that might be the only option available.


Then there are the different attitudes to grounding. Everything it seems gets connected to ground here and nothin does in Europe. The bottom cleaner divers get shocks sometimes here, ours was called 'sparky' after one flashbang from a boat's aircon water inlet I frequently find our AC on board is 'off'' ( This morning too actually) for some unknown reason, today was solved by unplugging and re-plugging the30A cord which might have got damp after torrential rains despite us having lathered all the plugs and sockets with an expensive special protective di-electric grease. These are the very expensive yellow Marinco 'waterproof' connections, factory fitted to the cables not owner added and they are just one year old.

So a choice between low volts high amps versus higher volts lower amps,but I know which I prefer.;) However I would like to see the relative merits discussed amongst knowledgeable experts

BTW our electric kettle at home on 110V has to be the worl'ds slowest and still hasn't boiled since I started typing

.
 
Last edited:
bedouin said:
What would happen if you didn't bother with RCD? Difficult to see how they can police that.

There must be some friendly non-EU territories where you can register the boat to avoid most of the hassle.
Click to expand...
Exactly, how many peeps have been quizzed about their CE marks?
S
 
No reason why an ordinary boat owner should ever be queried about a CE mark as there is no responsibility on him.

However if he brings in a boat from outside the EU he becomes an importer so has a legal responsibility. It is then his choice whether he wishes to break the law. So individual owners of old boats in the wilds of Scotland for example have zero experience of being in that position. So seems strange that such people can state with such certainty that it is irrelevant.
 
macd said:
I'm not going to tell you you're terrible, JD, but as I wrote earlier imports are checked, at least for value*. I doubt it's especially rigorous, but you never know what else it might turn up. But overall, I'm sure you're right that RCD compliance is a non-issue to the authorities.
Click to expand...

As I understand it, RCD comes under trading standards, and they really do seem to have better things to do with their time. Trying to escape VAT, on the other hand, is not a sensible idea.

Listen, and understand! That VAT Inspector is out there! It can't be bargained with. It can't be reasoned with. It doesn't feel pity, or remorse, or fear. And it absolutely will not stop, ever, until you are dead.​
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Share this page

Top