JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
Has anyone here had this check made by officialdom?
Cheap boats in America
- Thread starter jav301
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Has anyone here had this check made by officialdom?
JumbleDuck
Well-Known Member
It would indeed be odd if they did that. It's perhaps a little less odd for them to ask for some evidence that the chances of a privately imported boat - or indeed any other boat which should have a CE mark - being checked are significant.
But then, we've been here before. No evidence then, and I am not holding my breath now.
Resolution
Well-Known Member
I would be very surprised if as many as one in a hundred of us has ever been stopped and had our papers checked while sailing in UK waters. Although this may happen more frequently in the Channel than elsewhere in the UK.
But I would hope that every decent ABYA broker would include a check on RCD compliance as part of their documentation check when acting for a seller of a yacht, and any savvy buyer will do likewise.
And then there is always the small risk that in the event of a serious accident the MAIB would spot the deficiency which might then lead to serious consequences for the owner.
Is there in fact an insurance disclosure factor here?
So as long as you never plan to sell your (imported) boat, are sure you will never be stopped or have a serious accident, and have read your insurance policy carefully, then go ahead and ignore the law. Just be aware of what the regulations actually say.
chwarae
Well-Known Member
He wrote an article for YM concerning the purchase and transportation to UK. Also followed up with replacing the teak deck. Excellent I thought.
D
Deleted member 36384
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In my opinion the biggest risk of buying a bargain from the USA is not so much the VAT, RCD or CE it is the refurbishment costs. I think that any older, cheaper than the UK market foreign boat will have the economics blown out the water at the first refit.
My own boat, first registered in '73 and bought by me for a bargain in the UK after the 2008 crash, has had a significant amount of cash spent on it over the years. There is no doubt, the figures do not lie, that purchasing a more expensive and modern boat in the UK in 2008 would have been more economical. The same holds true today, I believe.
If tempted by the perception of low cost foreign boats, my advice would be to take a hard look at the total money over say a 5 year period and then look at the UK boats. There are some great bargains around in the UK on nearly new yachts and some great new prices too. The best bargains could be realised if one is prepared to drop a few feet of LOA on say a new or nearly new yacht, compared to their ideal older and larger yacht. Modern yachts, as we know, can fit more accommodation into smaller hulls than older, larger yachts.
The mistake that I made is that at 41' I bought a stable (alongside and at sea stability), aft cabin yacht that was a size that my family were not cramped in. At around 35' there are any number of young yachts with 2 x aft cabins, tall and wide saloon, big forecabins which are just as stable (alongside and at sea) for only just a bit more than I paid for the Rival and would have by now, some 7 years later, been far, far more economical.
The bargains are here in the UK now, especially if you look at the running costs and can be truly objective on what fits your criteria.
Otter
Well-Known Member
Im with you, how the hell would anyone ever know? How many thousands of boats are there built before RCD was even introduced???
macd
Well-Known Member
Precisely the point I made earlier. RCD checks have been made by the thousand since its introduction, by brokers or by prudent buyers.
There are no absolutes here. If the re-sale attractiveness of your boat means nothing to you, then by all means ignore RCD. But it might mean that your "cheap boat from America" turns out to be not so cheap in the long run: which is, after all, the point of this thread.
Tranona
Well-Known Member
There is plenty of evidence (as per the Cunliffe experience) that people do take this seriously. There was also well reported incidents in the early days of the RCD of boats being stopped and made to comply - well written up in the yotty press at the time.
You have no experience of importing a boat, nor have ever admitted you know anybody who has, so how can you be so certain? Just basing it on the fact that you have never been asked is simply not a valid reason for stating that nobody would be asked.
An importer is in a very different position both legally and in fact, so how can you speak on his behalf?
Would suggest that the reason why there is little "evidence" is that the number of private people that attempt to import cheap old non-compliant boats from the US is tiny, for all the reasons that come out in these threads. Difficulty in getting a CE mark is just one of the barriers to overcome, and probably financially not the biggest.
doug748
Well-Known Member
Spiffing if you want to set off on a big adventure though, not so great if you want something to cherish, use inshore in the UK and sell reliably at a later date.
You can get around the RCD and VAT issues by buying in the Med. Lots of modernish 34 foot items coming up at well under 20k now and 36 foot for a bit more. Smaller boats are almost at a price where you could buy one and write off the capital cost over (say) 5 years and treat anything you get back as a bonus. The difficult part is choosing one which is not a defective money furnace. You need to treat the location as part of the deal, hopeless if you have a plan to bring it back to the UK and make a killing.
BTW, I feel you have to be a bit careful in equating bigger with better as in your opening post. The problem manifests itself when find you are doing less sailing in your bigger boat and enjoying it less into the bargain.
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Warpdrive
New Member
Thanks for you reply.
Well you certainly had some issues and a good argument for keeping an amateur from working on boat wiring!
Does seem that much of your issues were related to the bad wiring.
I agree the heavy cables with 110v is a issue. But I would prefer a zap from 110v ( nasty)than 220v , killer!
I do find the USA standards for electrics like the plug sizes is nicely universal. NEMA CODES work across the entire country.
The U.K. Vs Europe plug sizes are a real nightmare.
Agree about the kettles, although we have found much faster ones than when we first moved to USA.
I hope you can enjoy your boat despite the electric issues
Warren
Well you certainly had some issues and a good argument for keeping an amateur from working on boat wiring!
Does seem that much of your issues were related to the bad wiring.
I agree the heavy cables with 110v is a issue. But I would prefer a zap from 110v ( nasty)than 220v , killer!
I do find the USA standards for electrics like the plug sizes is nicely universal. NEMA CODES work across the entire country.
The U.K. Vs Europe plug sizes are a real nightmare.
Agree about the kettles, although we have found much faster ones than when we first moved to USA.
I hope you can enjoy your boat despite the electric issues
Warren
Boo2
Well-Known Member
Tranona
Well-Known Member
That is not true. There has been a case of an accident involving a Polish built boat that capsized resulting in 2 deaths. It was discovered (among other issues) that it had been incorrectly certified and the importer was prosecuted by Trading Standards.
Whilst it is unlikely ever to be an issue with the sort of boats discussed in this thread, the possibility does exist. "Accidents" have a habit of uncovering issues that might otherwise be hidden from view.
The real risk remains in the importation process where the boat is "visible" to authorities who have the power to issue compliance notices and can impound goods for non compliance. On top of all the other barriers would you want to take that risk?
Robin
Well-Known Member
Our electrics are OK now and the amateur OP added stuff actually worked as he intended, It only stopped working after the professional insisted on 'fixing it' to ABYC codes.It is surely the Amps that kill rather than the volts and 110v needs double those for the same result, I even remember a Wimshurst (sp) machine at school 50 years ago doling out 50,000v plus and spark lighting a gas burner from my finger whilst holding it, a standard demonstration in the physics lab..
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Sybarite
Well-Known Member
Confiscation of the boat. The fine was too high for him to pay. There was an article about a French person bringing a boat back from the States. He made the mistake of stopping off in a French port when his final intended destination was elsewhere.
Sybarite
Well-Known Member
I seem to remember reading an article (iirc in PBO) about a couple bringing a Giles 38 back. They said in the article that the boat was too old to be concerned with RCD details. (Iirc)
macd
Well-Known Member
That exception would have applied to a boat built or used in the EEA prior to 1998, and thus effectively re-imported. It wil not apply to most US-built boats.
TQA
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Does the exemption from all this VAT and certification stuff still exist for liveaboards that have made their home in the boat for more than a year and claim it as their principle residence?
Kelpie
Well-Known Member
Can someone fill in for me as I am a bit confused.
Nobody (as in, the tax man, or whoever) knows I own a boat. I bought it with cash and as far as I am aware it is not on any sort of register. I consider my ownership of it to be no more complex than my ownership of a lawnmower or a teaspoon.
Nobody knows where I bought the boat, so in theory it could have come from out of the country.
What is the mechanism by which VAT and RCD become an issue?
Nobody (as in, the tax man, or whoever) knows I own a boat. I bought it with cash and as far as I am aware it is not on any sort of register. I consider my ownership of it to be no more complex than my ownership of a lawnmower or a teaspoon.
Nobody knows where I bought the boat, so in theory it could have come from out of the country.
What is the mechanism by which VAT and RCD become an issue?
Resolution
Well-Known Member
Nothing, until you decide to sell it, when any experienced buyer will check these things. If you do not have evidence of VAT payment, well that's 20% straight off the price he will pay. If there is no CE plate then maybe he will just walk away.
AntarcticPilot
Well-Known Member
When you sell it, when many people will expect you to have evidence that any VAT and RCD requirements have been met; if you don't you can expect to have problems selling - at the very least, you'll get a lower price. Further, there are theoretical difficulties elsewhere in Europe; few other countries have such as relaxed attitude to licensing etc. of boats, and while being British flagged SHOULD protect you from such hassles, it isn't certain. Plenty of threads (with much contention!) on these forums. But there was a recent one where a guy decided to walk away from what looked like a good deal precisely because the VAT and RCD situation weren't resolved. That was in a situation where the VAT situation would certainly have been uncovered by HMRC, as the vendor was a VAT registered entity.