Charts - Solent how old is too old ?

[tillergirl]

Oh, I didn't know that the Solent was a river. Sorry.

 

[superheat6k]

Oh, I didn't know that the Solent was a river. Sorry.

Actually as far as it's buoyage is concerned The Solent is treated as two rivers with several Cardinal buoys marking the divide between the East Solent river and the West Solent river. If you study the charts for east and west parts you will see the port hand marks to the southern shore in the east and to the northern shore in the west.

 

[tillergirl]

I think you might find that lateral and cardinal buoys can be found in open waters! All over the place.

 

[superheat6k]

I think you might find that lateral and cardinal buoys can be found in open waters! All over the place.

I was simply answering your comment that you were not aware the Solent is a river, when from at least one nautical perspective (direction of buoyage) its two.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

Whatever you call it, yesterday the western solent was exceptionally rough. Nav marks lost in the 6-8 ft waves, 25kn of NE wind, it was as bad as I’ve ever seen it, due to the direction. Electronic nav under those circumstances is the only thing that works on a small boat, apart from just knowing your way. No such luxuries on a day racer keelboat.

 

[tillergirl]

Sorry superheat, I was taking the mick! The buoyage was immaterial to the debate.

Sorry also, Chiara's evidence defines the Western Solent as 'Sea' (tidal waters with waves over 2 metres height are not designated waters. This is all immaterial though, no private boat is required to carry a chart under the Solas V regs if they apply. Frankly, when I went there I bought charts - does anybody want them?

 

[Refueler]

Why on earth did you need to look at a dictionary? You wanted to know the rules; there they are. There is no rule about carrying a chart on a private boat. Please don't assume I was trying to correct you. I highlighted part to support your point.

1. I only said dictionary as a point.
2. Your post does not read the way you intended ... that's a fault of online forums ..

 

[superheat6k]

Sorry superheat, I was taking the mick! The buoyage was immaterial to the debate.

Sorry also, Chiara's evidence defines the Western Solent as 'Sea' (tidal waters with waves over 2 metres height are not designated waters. This is all immaterial though, no private boat is required to carry a chart under the Solas V regs if they apply. Frankly, when I went there I bought charts - does anybody want them?

Well despite visiting every last nook and cranny throughout my house, workshop and shed I've still not found my Solent pack. However, I reckon an old Imray C3 & new C15 will work as well.

But presently I am strongly advised by SWMBO NOT to buy anything for my boat until I have completed purchase of the boat itself, especially as this is attempt number 3 this year !

 

[Refueler]

post deleted

 

[Refueler]

I was simply answering your comment that you were not aware the Solent is a river, when from at least one nautical perspective (direction of buoyage) its two.

The bouyage is determined by the 'Main stream of flood' .... Solent has a divided tide system.

 

[Chiara’s slave]

And in spite of my comments re the use of charts in the solent, my last set were bought in 2018 and at least the most relevant parts have been corrected. Electronically, God knows, or rather Garmin. The plotter is always on, on our cruiser, but rarely more than a cursory glace inside the solent. I also have a 25 year old folio, only ever used at home. We’re thinking of papering the hall with all our old ones.

 

[Refueler]

Pal of mine used old charts to make lamp shades ..............

I had an old chart (fathoms - B&W) that had Sea Serpents and other marks in the open sea part ... I pasted to a board, then varnished - framed and put on the wall. Sadly got lost when I divorced and left UK.

 

[sfellows]

If the depths are in fathoms and feet it might be worth considering replacements ?

I'd hang on to them, They'll come in useful again when the bunch of t******rs inhabiting Downing Street revert the UK to Imperial measures

 

[ashtead]

Maybe the missing charts are under the bed ashore? I think I have 2 sets of Solent ones there plus some full size admiralty versions of the Solent in the loft , kept for wallpapering a table top one day when retired I suspect.

 

[superheat6k]

The bouyage is determined by the 'Main stream of flood' .... Solent has a divided tide system.

Er - it does not, not sure where you got that one from.

 

[Refueler]

Er - it does not, not sure where you got that one from.

Actually the Solent is a unique tidal area - not least that the split tide is part of the reason for the double S'oton tide ...

Being a large body of water -at such as 3hrs after HW Ports stream divides E and W ....

 

[laika]

It is particularly challenging for the Folios as (IIRC) they don't have corrections issued in their own name.

Apologies if I'm misunderstanding the statement but the folios do (did?) have their own ntm section (under the "Leisure" tab here: Notices to Mariners (NMs) ). However whilst I used to be fairly fastidious about updating charts I was using, I am somewhat more pragmatic now.

Unless I'm mistaken the admiralty only keep corrections on their website for the most recent edition. I did for a while carry on updating old folios which were corrected to the date of the latest edition but that requires you updating them before a new edition is released (and is probably not "correct"). If you haven't been to an area for a while, updating an entire folio is quite a chore (as I found out when heading to the Channel Islands after not having been for a couple of years). Those little colour blocks require you having a colour printer . In short, a chart covered with little magenta squiggles makes you feel worthy and nautical but I would sympathise with the arguments of the "life's too short" camp.

By contrast, electronic chart updates are trivial. So these days I mostly take a hybrid approach using a combination of electronic and potentially not-up-to-date paper charts. I do like plotting on paper, but tend to double check an unfamiliar route with fully updated electronic charts (although the vector charts I have are probably sub-optimal there with an annoying amount of zooming required).

If buying new charts, I would personally "buy new" rather than save a few quid second hand for 5+ year old ones.

 

[LadyInBed]

 

[bedouin]

Maybe I am out of date because I haven't updated a paper chart for a decade.

IIRC it used to be the case that all corrections were published in NtMs and you could get those on line going back in time as far as you needed. In the paper days corrections for the old edition of the chart were still published while the new edition was being printed so there were no changes that weren't in NtMs. Therefore you could keep a chart up to date almost indefinitely (except maybe those with sand banks).

I am much more relaxed these days about keeping them up to date. I have a chart plotter and chartlets in the Almanac as well and the rocks don't move a whole lot.

But my current Solent charts don't have the Cowes breakwater so I think it is about time to replace them. Hence my thread on the matter from a few days ago.

It is not apparent from this thread but the Admiralty have stopped doing the leisure folios and it is very hard to find any remaining copies and hence an older folio is not a bad alternative.

 

[tillergirl]

The UKHO are now issuing daily NtM for their Small Craft Charts. But they have not (yet?) issued any SCC for the Solent so you would have to look for corrections for the right SNC. But note not all changes are notified by NtM. All 'leisure folios' stopped last year but many of the folio series changed to SCCs and have been issued. A lot of the East and West coast folios have been 'converted' to SCC and are now POD.

I have been running a free service for illustrated NtMs from the Wash to Dover across to Boulogne up to the Hook of Holland. Relevance to leisure craft probably only affects 10%. But it is also necessary to monitor local authority NtM (ports, wind farms etc). A much higher percentage of their NtMs are relevant to leisure craft, albeit most (but not all) are temporary.

Updating electronic charts such as Navionics and C-Map is an interesting thing.