'Charter sailing-when things go bad'

[Lizman]

Hello,

I saw this rather frightening clip of a charter in Greece https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3-cpPF4f2KM.

I have never been out in conditions remotely resembling those featured, so I do not want to throw stones or cause any further embarrassment to those involved. My aim is purely to learn the lessons from what happened, so that if something similar happens to me I will be clearer on how to tackle it.

In the replies there was some debate as to the correct course of action - running off down wind or heading further up to try to free the genoa. My initial impulse was to head down and maybe let out the sheet and then try to un-jam the sail, but that's assuming that they had sea-room.

Naturally enough the response from the crew was to seek shelter behind an island.

Its self evident that they probably shouldn't have gone out in the first place with a jammed furler, and that they should have worn tethers and life vest etc etc, but from a purely boat handling perspective what would the more experienced sailors on this forum have done under similar circumstances. I would welcome your comments.

Fair Winds

Lizman

 

[Mr Cassandra]

The only safe way to get to Santorini is on a ferry boat.

 

[capnsensible]

When sailing in heavy airs, I always prefer to bear away and put the wind on the quarter. Headsail only. Has worked for me a lot in the conditions seen on the vid.

It's much nicer when it's sunny and flat though......

 

[RupertW]

It's not an unusual experience at all if you sail in the Med - calm to 40 plus knot winds then often back again. You can almost always see it coming though so keeping an eye out and reducing or dropping sail early is the trick.

Otherwise, stopping the flogging is key I think. Getting the most experienced person harnessed and on the foredeck quickly would be my first priority to see why it was stuck and I would turn downwind to stop the flogging and protect the person on the foredeck. There is a good chance that turning downwind will allow the furler to work but the next check would be to see if another halyard had got wound around the top and get the sail unfurled enough to free it and move it away.

And finally (and these are all things I've had to do) I would try to wrap another halyard round and round the sail to parcel it up whilst the crew in the cockpit gradually release the sheets to stop flogging - but that would be tough whilst still in the squall.

 

[RichardS]

If monohulls heel that much with no sail actually doing anything I'm glad we have a catamaran.

For various reasons our genoa furler has got a bit tight when wind catches us out but on a cat it's no big deal for someone to go forward and sort it out. Obviously, we wouldn't set out knowing that it was jamming like the guys in the video but furlers are not that complicated. Ours jammed once and when I looked at it the Charter company had wrongly routed the furling line onto the drum so it was the wrong side of the drum cage. Not difficult to sort out but you do have to actually look at things!

Richard

 

[capnsensible]

If monohulls heel that much with no sail actually doing anything I'm glad we have a catamaran.

For various reasons our genoa furler has got a bit tight when wind catches us out but on a cat it's no big deal for someone to go forward and sort it out. Obviously, we wouldn't set out knowing that it was jamming like the guys in the video but furlers are not that complicated. Ours jammed once and when I looked at it the Charter company had wrongly routed the furling line onto the drum so it was the wrong side of the drum cage. Not difficult to sort out but you do have to actually look at things!

Richard

It's just as difficult on the foredeck of a cat in strong winds and big seas.

Preempting problems is of course a good thing, but the question is how do deal with things when stuff goes wrong.

 

[RichardS]

It's just as difficult on the foredeck of a cat in strong winds and big seas.

Ah ... I see. So I've never done that then? It must have been just a bad dream.

Richard

 

[capnsensible]

Ah ... I see. So I've never done that then? It must have been just a bad dream.

Richard

Why did you say it's no big deal then?

 

[RupertW]

It's just as difficult on the foredeck of a cat in strong winds and big seas.

Preempting problems is of course a good thing, but the question is how do deal with things when stuff goes wrong.

Completely disagree - having sailed on 4 very different cats and many monohulls I've found cats far more stable on the foredeck in big seas.

 

[mjcoon]

The only safe way to get to Santorini is on a ferry boat.

Yes, we had a lot of fun trying to park there in a 50 footer a few years ago. Eventually gave up and went back to previous harbour. Then visited Santorini by ferry. Those meant to join the yacht in Santorini caught us up by ferry too...

Mike.

 

[capnsensible]

Completely disagree - having sailed on 4 very different cats and many monohulls I've found cats far more stable on the foredeck in big seas.

Good for you. In mid Atlantic gales I've personally not seen any difference. Or med ones come to that. But the cats I've sailed in those conditions were only around forty feet. Would be interesting to have a go in bigger winds in the last one I sailed, a Sunreef 74. But that was an easy downwind 20 knots from Lanzarote toLas Palmas the other week. Interestingly, we just used the headsail and averaged 8 knots, but that does drift the thread.....

 

[RupertW]

Good for you. In mid Atlantic gales I've personally not seen any difference. Or med ones come to that. But the cats I've sailed in those conditions were only around forty feet. Would be interesting to have a go in bigger winds in the last one I sailed, a Sunreef 74. But that was an easy downwind 20 knots from Lanzarote toLas Palmas the other week. Interestingly, we just used the headsail and averaged 8 knots, but that does drift the thread.....

I've never sailed a cat above 43 feet but have sailed them in the Caribbean and cross Atlantic and that's where we had a lot of strong weather doing a delivery out of season. I found the combination of pitching but not heeling and the extra height above the water made the foredeck feel safer to me - but I accept it's subjective.

 

[RichardS]

Why did you say it's no big deal then?

Dreams are never that big a deal .... even the bad ones. :encouragement:

Richard

 

[Joker]

There's not a lot you can in a storm like that except to pray for sea room.

 

[lpdsn]

There's not a lot you can in a storm like that except to pray for sea room.

If they'd had no sea room it would've been a major problem, but things didn't look that bad in the video. They did get the main in and most of the genny so they should've been able to broad reach off if there was enough sea room, if not on one tack then the other. It didn't look as bad as a F10.

The helmsman just seemed to go into rabbit mode though and I wasn't sure from the video who the skipper was (I gave up watching when they started trying to make a pan pan call) so no one obviously taking charge and sorting things out.

Presumably the sheets weren't jammed so there was no reason to leave the genny backed once they'd accidentally gybed. That wasn't going to help. If they were to keep reasonable control though and protect the sail they'd need to get the lead of the sheet a lot further forward.

Should've been able to sail if they'd had a reasonable helmsman, but as you say they would need to be checking their sea room carefully, especially as they'd be moving quickly so the situation would be changing fast.

I wonder if they lost their deposit.

 

[[3889]]

Yes, we had a lot of fun trying to park there in a 50 footer a few years ago. Eventually gave up and went back to previous harbour. Then visited Santorini by ferry. Those meant to join the yacht in Santorini caught us up by ferry too...

Mike.

Not sure what your problem was. We parked a 56' at Kameni with approval from locals and dinghied across without issue.

 

[sailaboutvic]

I wonder if they lost their deposit.

I don't think there much to wonder about , there deposit and a bit more .
We been caught out with jam forsail a few time , but we always found a way around the problem without destroying the sail,
We we have to remember , this was a charter crew , charter company are now chartering big boats , and there a lot of charter who not use to handle big boats ( some can't handle small boats ) when things get tough .
We chatted to lot of people who do charter normal these conversations are after we helped them out with anchoring or mooring up , and many don't sail anything from one year to the next , some have very little experience, and to top things up the crew are almost novices and in some cases never been on a boat in their lives .
So when thing do go wrong as most of us know it will happen very quickly and if you haven't got the experience then you can expect what we seen in the Video to happen if not worst .

 

[mjcoon]

Not sure what your problem was. We parked a 56' at Kameni with approval from locals and dinghied across without issue.

I just looked that up: on the resurgent volcano in the caldera? I didn't know that had a parking place; it doesn't look sheltered. Our problem was of course the weather, as ever in the Med! The point of mentioning the size of yacht is that I gather the Santorini marinas are restricted in depth and we were large enough to take average conditions in our stride. We had quite a bumpy ride back to Ios and it was not a lightly made decision, as you can imagine...

 

[NormanB]

Glad they kept filming BUT they could have lost people from 3:20 in the film onwards. If the ‘skipper’ did not have the wit to turn downwind he would probably not have the wit to recover a MOB. Difficult to understand the ‘why’ - maybe it was a bit of ‘rabbit in the headlights’

 

[dslittle]

I do feel for them. We got hit by an isolated gale off Corfu a few years ago. 'Luckily' we had dropped all sail as we watched it approaching. Despite that, we had two knockdowns and lost the instruments due to a near lightening strike. We did have sea room and headed out to run with it. I couldn't see our bow which was 30' away. It lasted an hour and then the sun came out again...
I think a cat would have flipped, we came back up both times.
All quite frightening. I emphasise with their relief once they got into the lee.
The Med can spring a few surprises!!!