Chart Plotters

powerskipper said:
Modern Chart plotters,
What do you use on your chart plotter the most?
With all the new bits added, what do you like most or use the most on yours.?
Click to expand...

powerskipper you amaze Me
Surely you use paper chart stuff
Modern Chart Plotters are for finding the nearest Kentucky Fried Chicken outlet or Fuel Stations?
In short, they are far to complicated for my old brain
'Touch Screen' ones too
Bangin around on the Oggin whilst pokin a digit at a screen?
Whats all that about?
Anyway
Have to go
Need to clean me sextant!
:D
 
Yes, many times - also Amozon Prime.

But then I just use the Navionics app on my existing iPad as I don't yet need to use a chartplotter when I'm in sight of things, but do like it handy for a quick look into the cabin every now and then.
 
powerskipper said:
What do you use on your chart plotter the most?
Click to expand...

Odd as it may seem its main function is for navigation.
Also AIS is very useful.

Sometimes use it for speed/depth display , when we are on the river. Seems a shame not to put it to use.

I always have paper charts to hand.
 
powerskipper said:
Does anyone use the unit for "waypoint avoidance" "waypoint webs" or use there Radars EBL or VRMs.
Click to expand...

I have an Axiom so plenty of new features available - could even control a drone from it if I had one.

I like that it's fast and responsive and the ergonomics of the controls is good, but I don't really use much in the way of new features per se. A little boat on the chart is a little boat on the chart, whether your plotter is from 2019 or 2006.

I do use EBLs and VRMs a fair bit when I use the radar, but I'm not sure what that has to do with "modern" or "new bits" - they must be about the oldest radar features going :)

Pete
 
I wouldn't be without my B&G Zeus. I do carry paper charts but really only use them for planning and rarely look at them unless I have crew who are studying RYA syllabus. So many of my crew have done CC or DS then wonder why they need to know how to calculate secondary ports and tidal vectors when the plotters, backed up by hand held devices do so much.
I agree that understanding the principles of navigation are essential, but just as I don't carry a sextant, I'd be happy without any detailed charts.
I do know that many of my passages through the Stockholm archipelagos would have been impossible to do without a plotter.

I liked the Zeus so much I got a smaller Vulcan too. Love the SailSteer function!
 
prv said:
I have an Axiom so plenty of new features available - could even control a drone from it if I had one.

I like that it's fast and responsive and the ergonomics of the controls is good, but I don't really use much in the way of new features per se. A little boat on the chart is a little boat on the chart, whether your plotter is from 2019 or 2006.
Click to expand...

Your last comment sums things up for me. We are sprucing up our new to us boat and a new moulded carbon fibre dash is planned so I am also thinking about upgrading some electronics. The question for me is the Axiom Pro and Quantum 2 radar worth splashing out a chunk of dosh or is the existing Raymarine C80 Classic plotter and analogue Radar perfectly adequate and I would be better keeping my money. Aside from the new stuff being easy to use and fast I doubt that all the new ‘features’ will be used much.
 
powerskipper said:
I do use paper charts and don't get me started on how many things can go wrong with GPS chart plotters, but was wondering if anyone has watched Netflix on there units yet.
Click to expand...

Come on, Julie
Lets have your list of what goes wrong with GPS/Plotters.

These modern systems have got to be easier and safer than using paper charts.
In both cases (paper and electronics) you have to use some basic common sense.

Actually, I hope that the training establishments are now teaching GPS systems properly.
I did my Yachtmaster more than 12 years ago - in those days we had very little training of electronic chart plotting.

What could be easier than teaching someone to use Go To Cursor.
Then engage the Autopilot
And, thats all we use these days.
It is amazing how many people don't know how to this VERY basic stuff.
And once you have done this, all the other stuff becomes very much irrelevant.
IMHO you should spend much more time doing this basic plotter training (Particularly Go To Cursor)
Even to the point of excluding paper plotting.
Anyone with that information should be able to get themselves out of trouble.

Taking eastlands point - I have never used a sextant either - so why make things more difficult using paper when modern electronics are so good and easy to operate?

Anyway, back to your initial question.
I do actually play with all the electronic features - I even have a PC on board feeding OpenCPN into all my plotter/displays.
But we really only use "Go To Cursor".
 
Hurricane said:
Come on, Julie
Lets have your list of what goes wrong with GPS/Plotters.

These modern systems have got to be easier and safer than using paper charts.
In both cases (paper and electronics) you have to use some basic common sense.

Actually, I hope that the training establishments are now teaching GPS systems properly.
I did my Yachtmaster more than 12 years ago - in those days we had very little training of electronic chart plotting.

What could be easier than teaching someone to use Go To Cursor.
Then engage the Autopilot
And, thats all we use these days.
It is amazing how many people don't know how to this VERY basic stuff.
And once you have done this, all the other stuff becomes very much irrelevant.
IMHO you should spend much more time doing this basic plotter training (Particularly Go To Cursor)
Even to the point of excluding paper plotting.
Anyone with that information should be able to get themselves out of trouble.

Taking eastlands point - I have never used a sextant either - so why make things more difficult using paper when modern electronics are so good and easy to operate?

Anyway, back to your initial question.
I do actually play with all the electronic features - I even have a PC on board feeding OpenCPN into all my plotter/displays.
But we really only use "Go To Cursor".
Click to expand...

Disagree with the excluding paper plotting Mike. Any route that has a significant change of tidal flow needs to be plotted on paper and the pilot used on auto not track. Eg a cross channel crossing will be miles less if plotted properly rather than fighting the tide all the way in track mode. The slower you go the more true this is.
Also, how do you teach situational awareness on a screen? The instinct for where you are.
Most of the time I do exactly as you suggest and go to waypoint or follow a route, but I make sure I go out a few times a year with the GPS off, just to make sure I remember how.
 
Elessar said:
Disagree with the excluding paper plotting Mike. Any route that has a significant change of tidal flow needs to be plotted on paper and the pilot used on auto not track. Eg a cross channel crossing will be miles less if plotted properly rather than fighting the tide all the way in track mode. The slower you go the more true this is.
Also, how do you teach situational awareness on a screen? The instinct for where you are.
Most of the time I do exactly as you suggest and go to waypoint or follow a route, but I make sure I go out a few times a year with the GPS off, just to make sure I remember how.
Click to expand...

OK Mark
We will have to agree to disagree with this one.
My situation is very different - no (or very little) tide where I go but when we were cruising in the UK (a lot in the English Channel) I still just navigated directly to the waypoint and let the autopilot get on with the job.
This technique could be argued to be safer because your track is closer to a straight line over the ground thus missing rocks etc - more intuitive etc.
A novice would find it easier.
Yes, the slower you go the more the tide affects it but, most on here would run at a speed where the tide would have a minimal effect on the "less miles" argument.
Remember KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)
Plotting on a paper chart can become incredibly complicated for newcomers.
 
Greg2 said:
Your last comment sums things up for me. We are sprucing up our new to us boat and a new moulded carbon fibre dash is planned so I am also thinking about upgrading some electronics. The question for me is the Axiom Pro and Quantum 2 radar worth splashing out a chunk of dosh or is the existing Raymarine C80 Classic plotter and analogue Radar perfectly adequate and I would be better keeping my money. Aside from the new stuff being easy to use and fast I doubt that all the new ‘features’ will be used much.
Click to expand...

That's exactly the upgrade I did, though it was somewhat forced by two C80s (second one an eBay replacement for the first) going down with the infamous stripey-screen disease within months of each other. The first time happened in thick fog off St Malo - I have various alternative means of navigating but no way of viewing the radar picture with the C80 screen gone. Fortunately that time it came back temporarily with a firm press along the bottom, but it kept going wrong and eventually stayed broken for good. As all the C-series units out there get older and older it's just going to keep happening.

The new radar is a lot better than the old, and the MARPA actually works too which it never did before.

Pete
 
View attachment 76044

Just got a very basic by today’s std .Lorenz sunscreen .
It does actually work in the sun unlike say a iPad / phone .So it’s functionally Ok in the Med .
You can set a target with a curser , it’s stores routes , shows time to target which I find useful .Can enlarge to quays in visiting marinas ,that’s handy .But what was wrong with a pilot book ? Nothing .
Always like a chart out and x reference the heading with the boat compass .

Went through a phase at shows looking at tech completely confused so just gave up.
Tbo did not want to upset the lovely imho OEM dash ,new stuff all seemed bigger .That desire to jump on the hamster wheel of helm tech has gone . This means I can successfully walk past those stands at shows .

Sort of like the semi retro feel and old school passage planning of approaching land or an island from off shore with a minds eye ,thinking we should be about to see it “ any time now “ . Not quite Columbus but nether the less a sort of blend of anxiety and elation .
Any fool can steer a boat , but steering a mobo to the right place @ the right time with basic , just enough nav is nice .

I know a lot of boaters are way ahead tech wise with nav aids etc that’s fine - whatever . I like my eyes up .
Thinking of that Pershing wacking that lit buoy off Guernsey.

Less is more entertainment wise navigating.

Radar .
Used it once on the old boat .Hence when hunting for a replacement,Itama having no radar arch was not seen as a negative. Quite the opposite one less potential problem to fix .
Guess it’s how you use your boat ,we tend to be summer seasonal boaters in daylight in the Med .Thats more of dodge pot thing and fortunately cruising we can cover over approx 30 odd miles every hr means we can do 160/180 miles in 5 hrs so there zero pressure to nav kit up for long expeditions at sea .
3 hrs means 100 miles as rule of passage planning .
 
prv said:
That's exactly the upgrade I did, though it was somewhat forced by two C80s (second one an eBay replacement for the first) going down with the infamous stripey-screen disease within months of each other. The first time happened in thick fog off St Malo - I have various alternative means of navigating but no way of viewing the radar picture with the C80 screen gone. Fortunately that time it came back temporarily with a firm press along the bottom, but it kept going wrong and eventually stayed broken for good. As all the C-series units out there get older and older it's just going to keep happening.

The new radar is a lot better than the old, and the MARPA actually works too which it never did before.

Pete
Click to expand...

The potential for problems with the C80 is a factor and I do like the look of the Quantum 2 radar with automatic MARPA - we downsized to an S34 and I like the idea of the system simply identifying other vessels as a risk or not automatically as I cling on to the wheel bouncing along in a chop! :)
 
Last edited:
powerskipper said:
If you have face book , have a look at these. Taken on a 3 year old boat. I will write up tomorrow some of the stuff I have seen .
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=258466398386096
https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=344829346121670
Click to expand...

Thats not a fair comparison.
Those are faulty systems.
The paper chart equivalent of that is a pencil with no lead.

I wouldn't use a system like those above.
Instead, a simple iPhone (and I hate iPhones) with the Navinics app would be a good backup.
And if the problems with those two examples continue - FIX IT
 
Hurricane said:
OK Mark
We will have to agree to disagree with this one.
My situation is very different - no (or very little) tide where I go but when we were cruising in the UK (a lot in the English Channel) I still just navigated directly to the waypoint and let the autopilot get on with the job.
This technique could be argued to be safer because your track is closer to a straight line over the ground thus missing rocks etc - more intuitive etc.
A novice would find it easier.
Yes, the slower you go the more the tide affects it but, most on here would run at a speed where the tide would have a minimal effect on the "less miles" argument.
Remember KISS (Keep It Simple Stupid)
Plotting on a paper chart can become incredibly complicated for newcomers.
Click to expand...
I don’t disagree with most of that. But take a trip from Guernsey to the Solent or visa versa, it can be 10 miles different over the water even at P speed. With no rocks to hit mid channel and anyway you should have planned/plotted your predicted XTE on the paper chart.
I enjoy appreciating the difference (which you have the experience and knowledge to fully understand) and I just think that whilst, even if 95% of the time you use the track to waypoint approach, if you ONLY know that way you are missing out on fully understanding what track to waypoint actualy does in a cross tide situation. Limited understanding can’t mean safer surely (and to be clear I’m not suggesting for a second that’s what you have, I’m talking about the person who hasn’t grown up without a plotter)
 
Elessar said:
But take a trip from Guernsey to the Solent or visa versa, it can be 10 miles different over the water even at P speed.
Click to expand...
Let me check if I got this right.
What you are saying is that if in a crossing there's some current pushing the boat to port first and to stbd later (or the other way round), the actual distance through water is shorter if you let the boat drift to port/stbd (or vv), rather than follow a straight COG, as any a/p would do on track mode, correct?

If so, I fully understand the principle, but I struggle with the 10Nm difference.
I mean, I had a look at my maps, and found that we're talking of an 80Nm or so crossing.
Therefore, it takes roughly a 40Nm drifting, to make the crossing 10Nm longer.
Now, let's consider a theoretical best case of current on one side for the first half, and exactly the same current on the opposite side for the second half - i.e., 20Nm drifting to port/stbd on the first half, and 20Nm to stbd/port on the second half, which is exactly what you need to reach the desired destination without "fighting the current".
BUT, at a typical P speed of 20Kts, it only takes 2 hours to make 40kts.
So, in order to drift sideways by 20Nm in the same timeframe, the current should be 10Kts, no less!

Btw, I'm well aware that the exact numbers are not so round, but I did the math by heart, without caring about trigonometry, just because your 10Nm made me curious. Unless there's some other major factor which I missed, these numbers should be good enough for a rough consistency check.

Back to the point, can that REALLY happen, in the Channel?
Is it possible to have not only 10Kts currents (which already sounds unbelievable, to my admittedly ignorant ears), but also flowing in the opposite directions half way, reversing the direction completely in the blink of an eye, during such a relatively short crossing?
That sounds like a nightmare even for ships! :eek:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Other threads that may be of interest

S
Just looked at cost of navionics + cards, wtf! are they insane?
2 3
Replies
55
Views
2K
Babylon
B
JesseLoynes
Chart plotter suggestions / sense check please
2
Replies
39
Views
1K
Elessar
Elessar

Share this page

Top